Spike. Angel. And the Wes that Came Between Them ( In My Brain at Least)

[sisabet]

So I finally became aware of Kita's A/S essay at ship_manifesto. I guess it isn't that surprising that I missed it - cause it isn't like I am all "OH! Pairings! Gimmee!"

I have some ships, though, characters together that I prefer. Something about these two people (sometimes 3) together that strikes a chord with me.

She happens to pretty much distill the thing about the Angel and the thing about the Spike that I've been saying all along.

Actually, I've been saying it all along after Kita and hell, "Closer" was her idea so I'm pretty much her puppet. Her adoring, wackyass puppet and my nose comes off and is made of felt.

http://www.livejournal.com/community/ship_manifesto/3515.html

This is another thing that makes me feel better. You should go watch gwyn_r's vid "Santa Monica" for more feeling of the better. Or more feeling of the Spike on Angel - they are one and the same.

Spike and Angel, Angel and Spike - I mean, don't get me wrong - I loved Buffy and Angel. I still adore Buffy and Angel, but my all-time longest lasting Jossverse pairing was Angel/Spike. Even now - while I long for a B/A reunion - it just won't feel right unless Spike is there. Even when I hate Spike (more on that) I still need him there. Kinda like Angel.

And sometimes I do hate Spike. Well not hate. Hate is a very strong word. But for me, a little of the man goes a long way. Most of the time I am filled with an affectionate tolerance of him. Sometimes I even find him attractive. I guess - a good comparison of my depth of feeling for Spike would be how I feel Cordy really viewed Angel - good-natured affection, familial love and occasional attraction that is then overcome by him being a constant annoyance. Yes - I'd think he was hot if he wasn't getting on my nerves so much. And then sometimes I realize that if he wasn't bugging me, I would miss him. This is the point where I have to acknowledge that Spike is not so much the mosquito buzzing in my ear as he is the inquisitive and precocious but very difficult four year old with ADHD that I am to watch for the summer. I may want to kill this child at times, but then he is so sweet and cute that I forget about it until I want to kill him all over again.

And if that is not a lot of mixed metaphors then I don't know what is. All said, while I am never not in the mood for Angel - my Spike needs wax and wane with the moon. Especially considering Wes.

Cutting to talk about Season 5 spoilers and how this is all, really, Lum's fault

Remember when we found out Spike was going to be on S5 of Angel? Remember there were people howling in anger and pain: The Spike Fen (HE WILL BE SECONF FIDDLE/ANGEL'S FOIL NOOOOOO!!!) the Spuffy Fen (IF SPIKE CAN'T BE WITH BUFFY, HE SHOULDN'T BE WITH ANYONE!!) the Angel Fen (WE HATE SPIKE!! WE HATE SPIKE!). I think my even grandmother had an opinion, but in all the drama, I forgot to ask Meme what she thought.

Because I was over the moon! I knew that Angel would be on the last ep of Buffy and I would daydream about how that had to be the ep where he would come to collect Spike to take him home. Dawn and I would talk about the Shipper-Race for the end of BtVS and would love how the odds-makers were saying that A/S was a dark-horse, but looking more and more likely as an ending. WHEEEE!!

It was a good time to be a fangirl. I daydreamed constantly. I storyboarded Sting's "King of Pain" and I came up with endings I thought that they could get by airing:

SPIKE STARES OUT AT DESTRUCTION OF SUNNYDALE, IN THE DISTANCE SUN IS JUST BEGINNING TO RISE. CAMERA PANS AROUND SPIKE TO HIS SHOULDER WHERE IT FOCUSES ON HAND LANDING THERE. CAMERA FOCUSES ON SPIKE AS HE TURNS AROUND TO LOOK UP AND PANS INTO HIS POV TO SHOW ANGEL. ANGEL NODS AND SPIKE RISES AND THEY WALK *AWAY* FROM THE SUNSET TOGETHER.

I mean - I freaking *vidded* this shot for shot in my head. It was lovely.

Of course it did not happen. But that was okay cause I liked the ending we got and even though I was actually aching from Angel and Spike being SOOOO close yet so far away in "Chosen," Joss was totally forgiven when he had Buffy wonder about the oiled wrestling out loud.

THAT IS MY GIRL!!!

And then Lum happened. Seriously - I was totally happy in my own world - the A/S world where you have the angst and you have the wacky and sometimes you have the angst served up as jam on wacky toast! MMMMMMMM Angst!Jam!!

And freaking sockkpuppett had to go and ruin it all. Yes, I was aware of Wesley. How could I not be - he freaking cut his own arm to feed Angel. And I died. I liked Wes a lot. I liked Angel and Wes as a pairing. But Wes is only human and Spike is a *part* of Angel - dammit.

And then Lum mentioned that in the Wes/Angel dynamic there was much evidence suggesting that Wes was the dominant partner and then my brain short-circuited.

Because... well, that was hot. Like really, really hot. And - yeah, Angel would possibly crave the chance to be submissive and also (probably) be punished. We already know he was having Wes tie him up. And if you think about the fact that (in my head) Angel has always been pathologically dominant (even with Darla - although there was some overlap) and also the fact that this has to be wearing on him - especially now, now that he is opening up his heart and caring about others for the first time and is feeling responsible for them and maybe just maybe he needs to give up some control.

And of course, we know that Wes can do this. Even Wes before Season 3, cause, face it - the bucket didn't come from no where. Our Boy Wes has a dark side and it is butch as hell.

So mix all of that together, add in a bit of "Wes is the first man Angel has ever loved" and stir and serve it all up on Lum's vid "So Real" and all of a sudden my massive, giddy schoolgirl daze about Spike-N-Angel came crashing down.

Cause if Spike was on Angel or Angel was on Spike (and I do tend to fall on the Angel is on Spike side) where did that leave Wes? And I just can't threesome them without cheapening the original reason I find Angel and Wes both hot and also gutwrenching - the love. There is obvious love there and it isn't like the vibe I get with A/S - where anyone you add is just another body but these 2 will continue on no matter. With Angel and Wes it becomes this intimate and scary obsessive thing and throwing in Spike suddenly seems very disrespectful of Wes. Because Wes is only human and it just isn't fair that he won't be with Angel for all eternity, but Spike will and that a freaking unfair advantage!!

The first moment I felt the need to protect Wes from Spike was right before VVC and it was while watching So Real and I felt it so strongly that I was shocked. It was this sudden anger toward Spike for daring to even look at Angel - Because there is a WES to consider. Whoa. That was strange.

And then it just got worse from there and I totally blame Lum. In fact - I remember a drunken conversation at last year's vividcon where we decided that if there was ever a guy that would let the subtext become text, it would be Joss and the first thing we wanted was not acknowledgement of A/S - but would be something between A/W - at the very least an admission of feelings.

And I had to marvel at the hell? When did that happen? And then it just got worse from there, but it is still manageagble mainly because I think we are the only peoole who find Dom!Wes sexy so there isn't a bounty of fic or anything so most days I am okay.

But then sometimes I remember that Wes died and Angel did end up with Spike and there was canonical acknowlegement and I have to remind myself that this is what I wanted for years. Cause I am still grieving over Wes. So much so that I irrationally blame Spike. And I know he didn't kill him - but now there is this vid that I just can't make. Cause Spike....grrrrrrrhhhh.

Comments

[luminosity]

[passionate embrace of sisterhood] God. Yes. People. Just *look* at the evidence. This is a relationship where the mortal man knows Angel. Knows Angelus. And still remains faithful and true. This is the man who loved Angel so much that he gave it up to save him. This is the man with the bucket. The man who didn't even blink when Justine raised a crowbar behind his head. This is the man who unceasingly searched for Angel until he found him, and then *fed* him. God. Would that Angel could have fed from... well, it's all a metaphor anyway, isn't it. The reason he is the dominant one is that he *has* to be, for Angel. theirloveissoupsidedown.

I mean, I get the Angel/Spike... whatever it is. Sort of love, sort of hate, intensely competitive, and intensely intimate--no matter how Spike makes fun of that. That one time. That one, oh, 40-year time. But the Tragedy. The Pain. That's the Angel/Wes story.

And the vid. I know! I know!!! It's heartbreaking. If you're talking about the vid I think you're talking about. *cough*

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

I AM!! I am talking about that vid that you think that I am talking about and that is in fact the one I am talking about.

And the thing that kills me it is such a great story for a Constructed Reality vid and we could so sell it - and sell it well, but the feeling behind it - the inevitable *push* of Spike - when I now know how things end for Wes - well it fills me with this intense Anger.

Which would not make a good vid. Unless you want to make a totally bitter Spike bashing vid. But I honestly think the vid has to be sympathetic to Spike to work and in this one thing - I feel no sympathy. I am actually getting angry thinking about it.

DAMN YOU SPIKE!!

[coffeeandink.livejournal.com]

Maybe there's a universal equilibrium of Spike emotion, and my balance tipping towards tolerance has tipped you towards bitterness.

I can try hating him again, if you like. It's not that hard. All I need to do is find a fan site or two.

[luminosity]

Wail! I know! I've been thinking the same thing--not so much anger at Spike as grief for Wes. And Angel. Because it's all about Angel.

I don't want to use that song for a bitter!bashing!Spike interpretation. It would work for five minutes and then, splat! Because I don't think Spike's all that bitter. You know? But the song is too good not to do something with it.

[renenet.livejournal.com]

I am on the verge of tears. If I were at home instead of work, I would be bawling and watching vids and bawling some more. I love the two of you.

[cosmic.livejournal.com]

But then sometimes I remember that Wes died and Angel did end up with Spike and there was canonical acknowlegement and I have to remind myself that this is what I wanted for years. Cause I am still grieving over Wes. So much so that I irrationally blame Spike. And I know he didn't kill him - but now there is this vid that I just can't make. Cause Spike....grrrrrrrhhhh.

....my brain! My brain thought those things!

But see, I always have to complicate things, because it's not enough that Angel/Spike is the One True Vamps thing, or that Angel/Wes is Teh Love thing, there's also Angel/Lindsey to consider, the thing that sparkled and eye-fucked and everything. And Wes/Gunn, which was all about Partnership.

Maybe Angel/Wes is The One AtS pairing for me, in the end, but I never can quite convince myself that Angel loved Wes as much as Wes loved him. Because Wes always loved Angel the best.

Loved. Past tense. *sniff*

[vylit.livejournal.com]

With Angel and Wes it becomes this intimate and scary obsessive thing

God, yes. There's so much love and pain between the two of them. There are scenes in s3, s4, and s5 where they're just raw.

Because Wes is only human and it just isn't fair that he won't be with Angel for all eternity, but Spike will and that a freaking unfair advantage!

It is. I remember the fic stakebait wrote right after NFA that's Angel with A/W overtones post Wes' death, and it had me in tears. I just wish Wes had known how Angel felt about him before he died.

[mpoetess.livejournal.com]

Hee. Well, not hee at your Wes!pain, because I love the A/W and a grieve the Wes loss too. But hee at the way your issue with threesoming them is the exact opposite of my issue with threesoming them. Almost every writer I've ever seen 3x them, aside from jess79, has done so from the Angel/Wes side, where adding Spike in suddenly makes sense as an OT3 for them, but if you ask them to limit it to one pairing, they'd admit it's A/W. And that makes me protective of Spike.

It's shhh an open secret in fandom that I'm an S/X shipper (shh! I said shhh!) but when I can't get that (and let's face it canonwise and vidwise there's not much left to go on at the end of the day) I want Spike to be happy somewhere, and not playing third wheel to anyone in the sense of "Oh yeah, you, I've got this old family thing with, and the sex is fun, but Wesley has my heart." "Yeah, ok, that's cool, I'll just be over here sucking you or possibly him off and ignoring the fact that my one dream in unlife (under all the posturing crap) is to come first and best with somebody who loves me."

Thus I am utterly cool with A/W, and with A/S, but A/W/S stories tread a really thin line with me, and usually no matter how much I love them, even with the very good ones, I end up aching for Spike, and resentful of Wes.

PUPPET! PUPPETSIS! I <3 youuuu

[kita0610.livejournal.com]

Then I hit the cut tag, and all I could think was:

Oh MAN, the Wes people got you too.

*sigh*

Re: PUPPET! PUPPETSIS! I <3 youuuu

[thebratqueen.livejournal.com]

We're evil like that 8)

Re: PUPPET! PUPPETSIS! I <3 youuuu

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

WESSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It was the cutting arm thing. I just...

The LOVE

Re: PUPPET! PUPPETSIS! I <3 youuuu

[thebratqueen.livejournal.com]

They are so in love. Stupid and very often in denial, but so in love.

Re: PUPPET! PUPPETSIS! I <3 youuuu

[kita0610.livejournal.com]

LET MY PEOPLE GO!!!!!!!

Re: PUPPET! PUPPETSIS! I <3 youuuu

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

BUUUUTTT!!!!

Here is the thing - post S5 - for some freaking reason - I am all about the Spike/Angel - except now I need Buffy in on it.

And while I just can't add a third to the A/W mix -- somehow this is totally different. Possibly because I don't get a Spike/Wes vibe at all.

And for like a hundred years before Wes was born there was Spike n Angel.

I'm really only conflicted over a matter of months. That and I don't want Wes to be dead. C'mon. Admit it. You don't want that either. HE FUCKING CUT HIS ARM AND FED HIMSELF TO ANGEL ONCAMERA!!!

Re: PUPPET! PUPPETSIS! I <3 youuuu

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

BLAME LUM!!!!!!

[viciouswishes.livejournal.com]

Sounds like you just need to read some good Wes/Spike. Of course, I don't think you can read a good story with them without the discussion of Angel.

Currently, I've been co-writing a A/W story that's turned A/W/S, and contrary to the comments of many people, it was Angel who was the one who was unsure if bringing Spike into the relationship was okay.

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

I'm not interested in anything that doesn't really have Angel in it - actually I haven't even been reading that in months cause I can only read fanfic in spurts of the same stuff (I AM A FREAK) and I am still winding up my Clark/Lex fixation. It is winding down, but my kneejerk reaction with Wes is to grab him and look around wildly for Angel.

[viciouswishes.livejournal.com]

Angel does take over your brain.

[thebratqueen.livejournal.com]

I was just talking about this with... hum, somebody. I've had a long day of work, it all blurs together.

But the short of it is that I love me some A/W, but I think of all the ships out there they're one of the few that lends itself to a threesome, and particularly a threesome where the third is effectively their stable pony. So Angel/Wes/Spike to me is very viable, as is Angel/Wes/Cordy. In other words, the third party has things they can bring to both Angel and Wes individually, but collectively can look at the both of them and actively poke holes in their desire to brood and drama queen (for them) their way through life. Somebody to take the piss out of them, in other words.

Which is why I guess it always amused me as an A/W shipper to see all these doom and gloom people going "WAH! SPIKE SHALL VERILY RUIN OUR OTP, FORSOOTH AND WHYFORE!" whereas my immediate reaction was "Hell, through him in the bedroom and hand him the lube to help." ;)

[flaming-muse.livejournal.com]

I so agree. I've long been of the opinion that Angel and Wes (theirloveissointenseandbroody) need someone like Spike to make them remember to laugh and have fun. I think that each pairing in the threesome can love each other in different ways, making a nice balance.

I'm still in denial about Wes being dead and not off somewhere with Angel (and Spike). La la la la la I can't hear you!

And Wes? So can be the dominant partner in the Angel/Wes relationship. I could definitely see Angel needing a place where he doesn't have to be in complete control, and Wes likes being trusted and having some power. It's a good dynamic.