David Fury Is Spike

[sisabet]

Conversation between me and just_eunice whereupon I attempt to convince her that I am right. Specifically about David Fury (writer on Angel for all those nonBtVS people floating around). Eunice is kinda freaked by this.

And I cut

sisabet: Fury is Spike
sisabet: how many times do I have to tell people this?

Eunice: It would help if he didn't act like a crack riddled ass so often.

sisabet: he is a fine person
sisabet: he just likes fucking with the insane fans
sisabet: so do I

Eunice: I generally love his writing/episodes..but the man has the overwhelming ability to say exactly the wrong thing.
Eunice: It doesn't come across like that though. SDK comes across as fucking with fans in a fun way. David Fury comes off as mean or boorish way too often.

sisabet: Hmmmmm...."but the man has the overwhelming ability to say exactly the wrong thing"
sisabet: sound like anyone we know?

Eunice: I'm not saying he's a bad guy...I'm just saying he's good at giving out vibes that would drive a nun to drink.

sisabet: Say.....Spike???
sisabet: and again - I say Spike

Eunice: Then he needs to reveal the sweet more often..the gooey softie center.

sisabet: he does

Eunice: When?
Eunice: Did I miss that part?

sisabet: you just have to look for it
sisabet: pretend you are actually on Buffy
sisabet: and you have to look for Spike's sweetness

Eunice: Though...gushing about Spike/Angel being the love story of the season was pretty darn cute

sisabet: look at what the man does. Not at how he is quoted
sisabet: most of the time he only says that shit when he gets bored

Eunice: And...agreeing to have a hand stuck in his back and sing the mustard song..also cute.

sisabet: He is Spike

Eunice: jeez...stop it. Stop it RIGHT NOW

sisabet: thru and thru
sisabet: dude

Eunice: you're going to make me like Fury

sisabet: if you met Spike in real life - would you like him?

Eunice: *clutches bias like an adored child*

sisabet: would you give him a chance?

Eunice: Hmm...depends on the context I met him I suppose.

sisabet: ::hums::
sisabet: Fury is Spike
sisabet: No patience
sisabet: foot in mouth disease

Eunice: foot in the mouth diseased
Eunice: heehee...you said it while I was typing it

sisabet: hee
sisabet: BUT
sisabet: He is the one that souled Spike
sisabet: He is the one that had Spike overcome the First Evil telling him to kill Buffy

Eunice: Oh my god..the irrational hero worship of Angel? Jesus, it's all starting to make sense.

sisabet: Fury does *not* worship Angel
sisabet: he tolerates him for the greater good
sisabet: Fury may worship Riley a smidge
sisabet: but for the most part he likes Harmony

Eunice: Well then that tanks your theory doesn't it? 'Cause Spike sure as hell worships Angel.

sisabet: and he likes Spike

Eunice: In a truly twisted way..but he does.

sisabet: Fury does not know he worships Angel ETA -abrupt turn-around cause I know when to adopt other people's theories as my own

Eunice: He *hates* that he does...but he totally looks up to Angel.

sisabet: When given the opportunity - Fury will make Angel act petulant and broody
sisabet: also his hair sticks straight up

Eunice: So..in conclusion...Fury is Spike, has a sekrity crush on Angel, and likes to play with Harmony?

sisabet: and he is lame and bloody stupid
sisabet: Ocam's Razor to the conclusion
sisabet: Fury is Spike

Eunice: well shoot...disliking Fury was my last irrational fandom prejudice.
Eunice: Now I will truly turn into a fandom Buddah
Eunice: If I get enlightened I am so blaming it on you

sisabet: I've always thought it iroinic that the people that supposedly love the character hate the man
sisabet: it always made me think that sure Spike is easy to take on the little screen where we are privy to 100% of the info
sisabet: but in real life?
sisabet: not so cute

Eunice: Because, like I said...he doesn't reveal the ooey gooey shiny light of goodness center so much. And I've never *hated* him. I just got irritated to often by his foot in the mouth crap and started ignoring him.

sisabet: so it is easy to forgive the Spike-Bashing on the show
sisabet: cause dude can be annoying as all get out

Eunice: hmmm
Eunice: I hate you
Eunice: with the logic

sisabet: Spike isn't all about revealing the shiny ball of gooey chocolate at the center either
sisabet: we just see it cause we see everything
sisabet: most of the other characters are like you reading a Fury interview
sisabet: Spike is infuriating and strains the calm

Eunice: Right...so we know if the other characters would stop taking the bait and take the time to love him despite his flaws..how amazing he would be..but *they* don't know that. 'Cause they don't see what we see.

sisabet: yes
sisabet: and if you take the time to look at Fury's *actions*

Eunice: So poor Spike is left to play Donkey Kong all alone.

sisabet: because no one would play with Fury as a child

Eunice: I wonder if Fury plays his X-Box and sekritly gives boxes of chocolates for practice to us fans..and then doesn't have the guts to actually do it.
Eunice: So he beats up little fan cut outs instead.
Eunice: and then cries because we don't love him
Eunice: Poor little Fury
Eunice: Now I want to huggle him

sisabet: I don't think Fury wants our love anymore
sisabet: sure - acceptance would be nice
sisabet: but he is beyond that
sisabet: now it is all about the Joss
sisabet: the Joss man
sisabet: the Jossinator

Eunice: Joss loves us all

Eunice: As is appropriate for a diety of his standing

sisabet: well he is Jesus

Eunice: Our Lord Joss
Eunice: He gives us puppets
Eunice: and hand holding

sisabet: Fury gave us Angel's Indiana Jones dream
sisabet: He made the subtext text in Destiny

Eunice: and then he rips our guts out and pours salt in the wounds...because love is pain and he doesn't want us to forget that...because he is a loving God.

sisabet: He gave us back Cordy in You're Welcome

Eunice: *sniffle*

sisabet: he made Spike a demon fighter in Doomed
sisabet: He wrote Crush
sisabet: *and* Bargaining

Eunice: I've always wondered how what he *said* about Crush directly contradicted what I *felt* after watching Crush. It's one of my favorite Spike centric episodes.

sisabet: it is wonderful
sisabet: think of Fury and Crush this way...

Eunice: It's not anti-Spike at all..though I can see how it sounds like it is on paper

sisabet: You are Buffy tied up and Fury is trying to explain the ep to you
sisabet: of course it is not going over well

Eunice: Instead it's very sympathetic towards him.

sisabet: Fury *is* Spike

Eunice: It's the first time you really get a sense of just *how* torn Spike is...how much all of it is *killing* him.
sisabet: He had Spike send invisi-Buffy away because it was just a buncha sex to her

Eunice: You could say FFL does that...but that's about how he was brought to this point.
Eunice: Crush is about what it feels like for Spike to *be* at that point.

sisabet: AND - He had Buffy save Spike at the end of Showtime

Eunice: I wonder if he is a B/A/S shipper too.
Eunice: Because then I could love him with open arms

sisabet: I've always thought the fans were irrationally knee-jerk about Fury
sisabet: and I have always thought it was this great big cosmic joke
sisabet: cause it is ironic that people who profess to be all about Spike - really aren't
sisabet: these are the people that don't really know Spike

Eunice: hey! *looks insulted*

sisabet: the poor iddle Spike faction
sisabet: no - you were just misguided
sisabet: but now...
sisabet: do you see?
sisabet: can you see?

Eunice: I'm starting to, yes

sisabet: What that Fury
sisabet: is doing to me

Eunice: But then I've never been a big "bash the writer" person. Just easily annoyed.

sisabet: well - I just don't read their interviews

Eunice: bingo

Comments

[minim_calibre]

Pardon me while I giggle madly, having listened as The Fury held a gaggle of Spike fans captive, eating up every word he said, on Saturday.

Fury's like Spike with political skills.

[txvoodoo.livejournal.com]

As one of those in the gaggle, so true!

He really is Spike.

But gosh, I've always loved the guy - both of them. I'm a smartass. Fury's a smartass. Our smartasses call to one another. (And please, let's not go with the visual on THAT!)

Besides - I got to hug Fury. I told him that I knew at least 4 people who wanted to hug them - so he had me do them all for them - and counted them off: *hug* ONE! *hug* TWO! etc ;)

[http://users.livejournal.com/lady_alatariel_/]

You are the smartest woman alive!
Or possibly...you have way too much time ;)

[missmurchison.livejournal.com]

*sticks fingers in ears and sings "la, la, la"*

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

Dude. Sorry, but I speak the truth. David Fury is not only Spike's biggest fan, he is Spike.

[missmurchison.livejournal.com]

I have 'shipped Buffy, Spike, and Angel together this week. I can only do so much at one time or my brain will explode.

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

David Fury in fandom degrees is actually Eleanor Roosevelt.

[missmurchison.livejournal.com]

Now I want a manip of David in Eleanor's hat and dress.

I actually did it

[missmurchison.livejournal.com]

Because I am trying to learn how to do manips. And am completely insane. As you probably guessed from my idiotic emails.

Oooh, tonight's Angel!

Re: I actually did it

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

I can't imagine you ever being idiotic. Silly insane on sugar, but never idiotic.

Re: I actually did it

[missmurchison.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the reassurance!

But, you know, among all these fascinating who is really who theories, after last night's episode, I think you need to reference an older but still compelling one: Joss is God.

[missmurchison.livejournal.com]

Another thought--this makes Joss FDR, right????

Must. Go. To. Bed.

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

Sudden inspiration - If Spike is to Eleanor as Angel is to FDR and Fury is to Spike as Joss is to FDR, then that means that Joss is also Dr Dre.

[missmurchison.livejournal.com]

Joss and/or Angel as FDR makes me think wheelchair, which makes me think of the professor in Rocky Horror. If they're the professor does that give us Spike/Eleanor/David/Frankenfurter/Tim Curry? But I thought that was ASH.

So is Jane Espenson Susan Sarandon/Janet?

I think I'm confused.

[outofthisworld.livejournal.com]

Wow.. I think my eyes are open!

Do you know where I could find what Fury said about Crush?

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

No idea. I try to avoid interviews. My life is much easier that way.

[xanphibian.livejournal.com]

*cries*

She made me read it! Damn her! Damn you!

[missmurchison.livejournal.com]

*pats green*

Don't worry, sweetie, perhaps it's all sound and Fury, signfiying nothing.

(Sorry, it's early, I've had almost no sleep, and I just couldn't resist.)

[xanphibian.livejournal.com]

*giggle*

[stakebait.livejournal.com]

Hmmm... what I've always hated Fury for is his habit of Telling Us What the Thing Is, instead of letting us figure it out. But come to think of it, Spike does that too. It's just that I can sympathize with it more when he's telling Buffy or Angel because they so clearly need to be hit with teh clue by four.

Mer

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

Eh, I'm gonna take a stand and say that there are quite a few fans out there who are just as clueless as Angel or Buffy. I don't usually read interviews cause it interfers with my interpretation of the show and usually the people that spend a lot of time reading about the creative influences behind the scenes just end up getting pissed off. Therefore my opinion of Fury is pretty much based on the eps he pens and those eps lead me to believe he is either Spike's biggest fan or believes he is Spike. I've always been puzzled by people claiming he is anti-Spike because I have never seen it evident at all in any of his episodes.

[stakebait.livejournal.com]

*nods* probably. But I don't like watching shows that cater to the clueless fans as much as I like watching the clueless characters. Probably because I don't get to see the fans get their comeuppance.

I'm not talking interviews, which I rarely read myself, I'm talking the number of episodes that Fury writes in which one of the characters spells out the moral of the episode, and/or in which the moral of the episode is way too simple and unambiguous for my taste even without spelling out.

I've seen him do things that could be interpreted as anti-Spike, but I tend to think that's not what he was going for. I just don't think he likes gray areas much, so when Spike is being gray Fury tends to push him towards black or white, depending. That's not having a hate-on for him, in fact it's perfectly compatible with your theory. But it's still not something I much fancy in a writer.

Mer

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

I've gotta say that I normally enjoy Fury's eps. The one's that I did not like or that did not hold up over time for me - "Showtime" is an example - my dislike is mainly due to the pacing of the ep and not the characters.

I'm talking the number of episodes that Fury writes in which one of the characters spells out the moral of the episode, and/or in which the moral of the episode is way too simple and unambiguous for my taste even without spelling out.

See, I don't see Fury being any more guilty of this than any other writer - and I have never really felt he was catering to anyone. I actually rarely feel catered to or catered against in the Jossverse. Well - that is wrong. I feel Steven DeKnight caters to me personally, but enough about my fantasy life.

I guess my pet peeves are characters acting out of character and stupidly (where their actions just don't make sense to anyone with half a brain) and Fury satisfies me as a viewer.

[netweight]

This actually makes sense. You are a smart and eval person. (I knew there was a reason why I friended you in the first place. ;})