Plea for Love

[sisabet]

Dammit. Apparently I will not be able to concentrate until I get an icon of Clark in glasses. If anyone wants to make it for me ::big anime eyes:: I can post a screen cap when I get home.

I was responding to Viola in my previous post and for some reason I got off on a rant about Lana Lang and it had nothing to do with Vi's comment - but it still didn't stop me from rolling out all of my issues.

My number one, big ole issue? I don't like character-bashing. Normally, I don't worry about it - I love Mulder. I love Scully. I want to call Skinner daddy. These things work themselves out. Sometimes, I might feel distant from a character - I may dislike them sometimes and want to see them dead - but for the most part I tolerate them and sometimes even value their presence. I guess Firefly's Inara and Season 3-4 Fred qualify here. Right now I am really liking Fred (and I loved crazy!Fred in Pylea, writing on walls and craving tacos) and I think I would have bonded eventually with Inara - Heart of Gold and Trash being eps where I really valued her contribution to the dynamic.

Sometimes I love a character irrationally and still wish to throttle them thoroughly. Spike comes to mind as the best possible example of this. I really do not want anything bad to happen to Spike. Well - I don't want him dead and burning in hell. That thought bothers me - I love Spike - I do. I want to shake him like a British nanny, but I love him. Mulder - he is in this category as well.

Sometimes I don't trust a character and cannot bond with them because I feel like I don't really know them. I want to like them, but then I don't want them to turn around and trick me. Gunn this season is a good example. I used to know and like Gunn, but not anymore. I was wary of the Shepherd on Firefly - I really wanted to like him - I really did. Maybe it was because Barney Miller was on a lot as a child and by not liking Ron Glass - well it would be like being mean to Mr. Carlson on WKRP - it just isn't done (RIP Gordon Jump). Season 7 BtVS Giles became like this for me too and almost broke my heart in the process.

Sometimes I hate a character and want to see them die because I am *supposed* to hate them. They are a villain and not in the fun Mayor sense - but in the most evil on high, horrors of the world sense. Warren. I hated Warren. I still hate Warren. I don't think he should have been flayed - but there is not much sympathy in my heart for him because I hate him. I hate Chris Hobbes. I hate Lionel Luther with a passion for attempting (and perhaps succeeding) to lobotomize his son. I wait patiently for his death and I hope it happens onscreen and on that day I will dance. Fuck the Magnificent Bastard bullshit - I hate that man and he needs to pay.

I don't hate all villains - I mean - who can hate the mayor? Or the Master? You just can't. Sometimes - as in the case of Glory and Adam - I don't care enough to really build up an emotional response. I think that is a failure of the character - either in the writing or in the intrepretation or in both - because the purpose of the villain or the hero or the glorius inbetweeners (FAITH!!! KRYCEK!!!) is to make me *feel* something. And if I am walking through a season like season 6 Buffy, then we have a problem. But - I an still deal with this and not want to tear out my hair, because even when I don't give a shit about the villain, I still have an emotional connection to the other characters and to the experience.

And this is where character bashing rears its ugly head. I *hate* it with a passion. Want to get me riled up? - bash Buffy unfairly. Or Angel. Or Spike. Or hell - even Fred. Back the fuck off Aeryn Sun, there are reasons she made the choices she has. Don't say that just because Dawn is acting like a teenager (which she is) that she is the worst character evah! That will piss me off. Give Jayne a chance and don't you dare talk about my Mulder. Well - unless you can back it up and then we'll talk. Mulder is an idiot most of the time - I'll admit it, but that doesn't change the love. We mock because we care. Mocking outta love is way different than bashing and if I wanna call Angel a man-whore, I do it with both pride and canonical support.

Sometimes, like in the case of Cordelia and Scully, a character you truly adored becomes someone you don't recognize and you must mourn. That it not bashing. That is just sadness and letting go. It's okay - I am here for you.

But sometimes - you just have to bash - because you hate a character. It is not because you are supposed to hate them - it is because the way they interact in that particular universe, in your opinion, weakens everything else about the show. I know what it is - the unbelievability of them - it *pulls* you out of the universe you are trying to inhabit and then rather than emotionally connect with the events - you are puzzling out your irritation.

Back in the Big Eighties - my mom loved "Designing Women" - loved it. I liked Suzanne Sugarbaker - Delta Burke's character. She was loud and flashy and had a pet pig and said everything that crossed her mind, tact be damned. She was a Southern Beauty Queen and more Cordelia than Cordelia. Suzanne had an older sister played by - well damn. That southern actor that is always trying to sell fans and is married to Hal Holbrook. I forget her name - she played Julia. And Julia was cool at first - I liked her a lot. She was intelligent and liberal and independant and would brook no shit. Then it seemed that on the show - Julia became infalliable - always right and always correct and Suzanne was always stupid and always vapid and you know what? The universe just does not work that way. No one is right all the time - but the way the show was set up - you would think Julia Sugarbaker was the modern day equivalent of Jesus Christ, decorator. I started hating her. She went from being outspoken to being sanctimonius. She went from being liberal to being rigid and judgemental. I couldn't stand to watch the show at all and I used to just want Julia to be wrong and Suzanne to be right and the show to acknowledge it just one freakin time and I would be a happy woman. But no, instead we see Julia treating Suzanne like a second-class citizen because Suzanne has a pig named Noel for a pet and likes to date old men. So the fuck what? Arggghhh!! I am getting angry just thinking about it.

It was a case where the shows creators became to invested in one particular character - in essence they Mary-Sued her - and in the process she lost all believability and any connection the audience might have felt was severed because none of us are right and proper all the time.

I worry about the fate of Brian Kinney sometimes.

But this brings me to Lana Lang. I could like her - I could. I would like her if she was allowed to be real and have real flaws that were acknowledged to be flaws - I mean I can give you a roster of her issues, but no one acknowledges that they exist. It is fricking Julia Sugarbaker all over again! If we could just explore this dark gray area Lana - and dudes, she is one seriously masochistic bitch, then I would be happy. Instead, whenever they want her to act out - or be unperfect - she has to be under the influence of some outside force. I cannot connect to a character that is not at least a shade or two realistic -- unless that character is *extremely* dynamic. I will never, ever like the perfect characters - cause they pull me out of the fantasy. So I want to bash Lana - and it pains me, because there is just no way to really enjoy a show when a character that pulls you out of the verse is the predominant focus. It makes it hard to watch.

Well that has been my two cents and 13 paragraphs. YMMV - and I speak only for myself.

Comments

[luminosity]

Hey! You're back!! I missed you!

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

{{hugs you tight}}

[eleveninches.livejournal.com]

I hated Lana until I started watching the OC. Next to Marissa Lana is a great female character.

[wrenlet.livejournal.com]

Hah! Well, I still can't stand Lana, even though Marissa is The Suck.

And yes, Sisabet. It just makes my teeth itch when I can tell that the PTB on a show want me to feel a certain way about a character, and then consistently fail to deliver any reason for that feeling. I know I'm supposed to sympathize with Lana, she practically has neon FEEL SORRY FOR ME signs hanging over her head in most of her scenes, and yet... and yet... I Don't Care. They are failing to make me care.

*sigh* I just want her to go live with her aunt in Metropolis, so I don't have to watch her anymore. Is that so wrong?

Ohhhhh!! I LOVE this rant and your ramblings on characters-bashing-marysues!!

[viola69.livejournal.com]

with Lana the further problem for me is- well, the failings of the character are a mixture of the writing & well, the acting. A more... nuanced? actor could give us the shades of grey even when the writing is pedestrian. And frankly I think it is also a mistake to make her character as central as she has been at times this season and last. Keep her the slightly-removed fantasy Princess that Clark is forever seeking, but never able to attain-- with the audience in on the irony that she ain't the princess he imagines her to be and that down the road he'll finally acknowedge that when he finds 'true love' with Lois Lane.

Even without looking for/acknowledging the slash-heavy-side-- the dynamic between Lex & Clark is & should be the focus of the show- These 2 are on parallel inverse paths- one on his way to becoming a Superhero, the other a Super villian. And I do find it overall commendable how equally intriguing they've made the development of both- you see how Hard it is to deal with these gifts AND do the right thing, while also empathsizing with Lex to an almost criminal extent.
Lois? She goes on to... help me, my canon-memory ain't that great- but it ain't a 'super' anything.

[roquelaure.livejournal.com]

Sometimes her supposed perfection lends itself to the story. She's the personification of a high school boy's first love, and just as unattainable. However, I don't think they should have kept her in that mold for more than one season. They're not stepping up to the plate and giving her any more dimension (like they have with the other characters), so it's just the same old song over and over. I suspect the creators of Smallville are a little in love with Kristen Kreuk. I feel pretty backed-up in this belief by the Season 1 DVD commentary. It's too bad, really.

it's Joey all over again

[undercoverbro.livejournal.com]

I suspect the creators of Smallville are a little in love with Kristen Kreuk.

You read my mind, or at least spied on me where I live yesterday (perv!) and listened to my rant.

I had the same theory about the producers of Dawson's Creek and Katie Holmes. She was portrayed as this universally adored character, yet had done nothing to earn that status. Worse yet, she was never held accountable for her actions. Man, that series finale still pisses me off. (Pacey?!? Explain yourself, you spoiled bitch!) Hey sisabet, surely Joey Potter is on your hate list?

Re: it's Joey all over again

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

She is why I quit watching Dawson's Creek. Well - actually - I hated Dawson as well. Liked that Pacey and Jenn and Grans and Jack a hell of a lot. But - show is called *Dawson's* Creek and if you don't like Dawson...

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

She's the personification of a high school boy's first love, and just as unattainable. However, I don't think they should have kept her in that mold for more than one season.

Hear, hear and yes! I can actually empathize with her in a very distant way about the difficulties in being placed on a pedestal and how it feels that no one really cares about the *real* you - but rather their *impression* of who you are. But the closest they get to having Lana to the point of throwing off that is by her rejecting being a fairy tale princess - but then not following thru on it.

I think I am mainly upset by lost potential. The actor who plays Lana is gorgeous and I think she could possibly do more than she is being allowed - and in such I think the PTB at the show are falling into the same trap as the high school boy who adores the "perfect princess" from afar and never acknowledges that she is real - that she sweats and burps and farts and has really bad days where she hates everybody but still does what she has too and sometimes she fucks up and it is totally her fault and good god does everything have to be so fucking *dainty* all the time!? And if they are attempting to make this *ideal* a central character and still maintain the ideal status, well then I might as well be watching Seventh Heaven.

I guess it is stupid of me to ask for realism in a show about young!Superman but...no. You know what? It isn't stupid at all. I want characters that I can relate too and that strike me as actually going through these fantastical situations and you know I get that from a vampire with a soul and from an Astronaut that got sucked through a wormhole and from a girl that died and now is a grim reaper just trying to make it in corporate America. I see no reason I cannot have that here as well.

[laurashapiro.livejournal.com]

I love you with an epic passion.

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

::beams::

[lumenara.livejournal.com]

Dammit. Apparently I will not be able to concentrate until I get an icon of Clark in glasses. If anyone wants to make it for me ::big anime eyes:: I can post a screen cap when I get home.

*volunteers* I'd be happy to make it for you. Any particular text, etc, that you'd like on it? I will need the cap, though.

Lana ticks me off. Admittedly, I have not been watching the show since the beginning; I've pretty much only seen this season. But it seems to me that the problem with Lana particularly is that there is not a character there. She's not been given range or depth, and if, as you said, she acts out when under influence, they sometimes go so far as to have her forget it afterwards, so it doesn't benefit the character at all.

In a way, I think what's going on is rather similar to one of the problems in The Great Gatsby-- and I'm not trying to be grandiose here, Smallville has far more serious problems, I just don't know where else to go for the example. There are *no* women in Gatsby. Despite the tremendous importance of the three central female characters, they are all two-dimensional stereotypes of women; none of them is an actual person.

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

She isn't real - she is like an AI program or something. That movie, AI? It also creeped me out. Well - it creeped me out and then my ass fell asleep cause it just would not end. But if it had ended when it should have - I would be seriously creeped out.

And I am a dork and capped a buncha pretty shots. Cause of the pretty.

http://www.photobucket.com/albums/1003/sisabet/QaF/Clark%20In%20Glasses/

*swoon*

[viola69.livejournal.com]

Ohh, so pretty, pretty pretty boy with glasses. *swoonthud*

Very nice caps!! *stares&drools*

[lumenara.livejournal.com]

Which are your favorites? Did you have any particular text you wanted?

[linzeestyle.livejournal.com]

I don't usually say it, but word to everything here. Just...yes, yes, yes and...yes.

and don't you dare talk about my Mulder. Well - unless you can back it up and then we'll talk. Mulder is an idiot most of the time - I'll admit it, but that doesn't change the love. We mock because we care

I love you. *g*

Linzee

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

I think one of the reasons Mulder elicits such tender feelings from me is because he is an idiot. One of the things I adore about Angel is his cluelessness and his tendency to over-react. It is just the situation that normally - men that looked like they look, with the abilities they possess, well - I wouldn't be able to relate to them at all - they would intimidate me and there would be no connection. But by making Mulder an idiot who hires people to drill holes in his head, jumps on top of train cars and loses his gun, and takes convicted predator child killers on field trips (Crazy Insane or Insane Crazy?) I can feel bemused affection - it makes him human and hair-ruffley. Same thing with Angel - his utter befuddlement when it comes to developing and maintaining connections is adorable.

[ex-dovil323.livejournal.com]

Hear, hear about character bashing. Even though I had a rant about Eve I've decided its not actually the character that I hate per se but more about the casting choice that they have made. It's not the lines etc but the delivery that I don't like. And that's the first time I've ever felt that way about any actor in the Buffyverse.

But then again other people like her, so what do I know.

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

People like Eve? Who? Seriously - who?

I am over my issues with Eve though since I have decided she is a deliberate fake-out and I was supposed to not like her specifically because she is not Lilah. Now I watch with interest wondering what will happen next. It helps that AtS is not the Angel -n- Eve Show.

[luminosity]

I haven't read anything except the first line of this entry. I'm making Clark-in-glasses icons for Ellen. Ya want one?

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah - I even went and capped a bunch of shots. Not to gaze at em or anything. Well, yeah. To gaze. Because I am a dork. A great big dork.

[coffeeandink.livejournal.com]

I love you. If I actually make it to Vividcon, can I buy you a drink and gaze worshipfully at you?

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

IF??? Why IF?

You have to come to VVC. You just have to. I insist.

[killabeez.livejournal.com]

Add me to the chorus of people who just went, "wow, I love her," when they read this post. *g* I actually was just considering writing a Why I'm Taking a Big Break from Hornblower Fandom post, and it was all about character bashing. I still might. Sometimes, I just hit that maximum tolerance level for listening to characters I love get called names, and I feel like a horse driven to kick down its own stall, you know?

I will never, ever like the perfect characters - cause they pull me out of the fantasy. So I want to bash Lana - and it pains me, because there is just no way to really enjoy a show when a character that pulls you out of the verse is the predominant focus. It makes it hard to watch.

You know, what upsets me is when someone has a huge problem with one of the main characters of the show -- and yet they cannot resolve their own issues with that character, and they will not leave the fandom, and they cannot keep their feelings to themselves. Me, I'm physically incapable of being a fan of a show where I hate one of the main characters. It just can't happen. If I find myself hating one of the stars, the fannish love affair is as good as over. What I find hard to deal with is that this doesn't seem to be true for most people. And I really don't understand it when the character they hate is the main character of the show. Buffy. Angel. Clark. Horatio. Duncan. Jim Kirk. GO FIND ANOTHER SHOW, I want to say to them. Your hatred is ugly, and you're getting it on me.

Sigh. I totally empathize with the Lana thing, though. There was a character on Jeremiah last season who could have been Lana's twin sister in many ways. I didn't hate her, but she sure did grate on me, and you should have seen me do the dance of glee when she died. I don't think it's coincidence that I became seriously fannish about the show once she was gone. Anyway. I'm ranting. Horse kicking down stall. Why can everyone not be as cool as you? Oh yeah, because the earth would a splode. :-D

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

You know - you have really helped me solidfy what I need to do - because really, if I am going to continue watching Smallville with a high level of fannish intent, I am gonna have to learn to live with Lana. The other option is to go back to watching it like I did before - barely. I don't have time to waste bitching about a fake person getting on my nerves - there are enough people in RL like that, I shouldn't go and seek it out.

So, I know what I have to do now. I have to learn to like Lana. I think this can be done. I just have to figure out how to wank my interpretation of the character with what is depicted onscreen, since it does not appear she is gonna *not* be a focus anytime soon.

And I guess I could just let it go and not watch...but Clark wears glasses now. And Lex gets tortured.

::Gulp::

[killabeez.livejournal.com]

So, I know what I have to do now. I have to learn to like Lana. I think this can be done. I just have to figure out how to wank my interpretation of the character with what is depicted onscreen, since it does not appear she is gonna *not* be a focus anytime soon.

Maybe you could find a way to wank your interpretation of her in some really wicked way - and then make a vid about it. :-D I bet that would work. I know I get much more interested in characters sometimes when I vid or write them.

I think it is sort of weird that they keep giving her starring roles in eps, without seeming to grow or change her character at all. There have been certain points in the series when I really rather liked her - like that ep with the flashbacks. I liked that one. I also had sort of a thing for Chloe/Lana for a while there. But then it seems like she gets sent through the same paces again later. And there she is walking perfectly with no crutches or anything... would have been more interesting if she'd been permanently disabled, I think. Perhaps wankage might begin with that "enchanted princess" thing - twist it somehow, and imagine some dark fate that might become her (or others because of her) ten or twenty years down the line.

You know, the few times KK has been pressed to do something different (like the dreams episode and the flashbacks one) I actually thought she was pretty good. I think it's the writing that fails her. If you're going to have an untouchable fairy princess, she can't be your protagonist. Doesn't work! Hmmm... dilemmas.

I've got issues with Joe on HL, big time, which I pretty much just ignore by only putting him in stories when I'm feeling charitable towards him. *g* But there is one episode where I really love him, and it often helps to watch that ep if I'm going to have to write him for something.

just rambling aloud. Ignore me - I had no sleep. *g* Vid Farr!

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

VID FARR!!!! Wheee! I am very excited for you (and also me by extension - Killa vids! yay!)

I've got issues with Joe on HL, big time, which I pretty much just ignore by only putting him in stories when I'm feeling charitable towards him. *g*

Hey - didn't you kill Joe in "Mac the Knife"?? Did I dream that? I don't think I did.

Yeah - I think KK can actually act if given something to do - and I am right this moment trying to come to some sort of understanding with her. I don't know if I can vid her - although she isn't hard to look at :)

[killabeez.livejournal.com]

Hey - didn't you kill Joe in "Mac the Knife"?? Did I dream that? I don't think I did.

Heh - no, he was Louie Miller, the guy who paid Mac to kill somebody. Which, he really pretty much did in the clip shown there. See why I have issues with him? *g*

[thefakeheadline.livejournal.com]

Hee, Gunn and I totally feel your pain on the Lana thing. She's just *impossible* to like. I used to try, in the first season, to grit my teeth and tell myself that it was a new show, and they hadn't found the right characterization for her yet. But she only got *more* painful to watch. Gah.

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

Me and Angel - we fear Gunn now.

Eh - Lana. What are you gonna do - I think she could be an intriguing character - what they have now is not working for me at all. If this keeps up I'll probably go back to how I used to watch the show - distractedly while doing something else only to look up for the Pretty scenes.

[halfempty129.livejournal.com]

You probably already know this, but as for the Clark with glasses icons, oxoniensis has some woderful ones. Just head on over to her journal and be astounded by the beauty.

I hope you don't mind if I add you to my friends list. I'm pretty much a lurker, but I love to read everything you have to say, and your videos are fantastic. So, basically, it's for pretty selfish reasons. *g*

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

Add. add. add away -and thanks! for the icon heads up and the nice words about my vids and all!

[mintwitch.livejournal.com]

It's sad that I've spend 50 minutes catching up on your journal and the only thing I want to comment on is, "I worry about the fate of Brian Kinney sometimes."

Because, yeah. I'm having serious S4 fear.

In other news, your mix is now finished and will be winging it's way to you this afternoon. Well, not winging, more like riding a slow train, which is actually more appropriate. This will complete my attempt to become one of your groupies. ::fingers crossed::