Know Me Unbroken
Oct. 17th, 2003 01:57 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
sisabetToday has been gray. Cold. Dark.
Let's talk about Angel and Spike, shall we?
Cutting for![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
aexia because I eventually talk about season 5 - at least what I want out of season 5 - but I never get around to referencing anything in particular. So Xia can read this and now I am cutting for an exceedingly self-indulgent post about "Closer."
I remember last year - around this time - just repeatedly slamming my head on the desk trying to make "Closer" work. I also remember bugging everyone under the sun with it. Most of the problem stemmed from me not knowing where I wanted the vid to go. Yes - here is Angel. Here is Spike. Someone wants to fuck someone like an animal. Okay. What else ya got? Why *this* song to *these* vamps? What do the lyrics say? Well then, how can you interpret them?
And some of it was obvious - you can't have my absolution/ You can't have the hate that it brings - and I mean, well yeah - I can see where that fits and whykita0610 picked it. But I had to think about that. That line.
And eventually we (cause it was really a group process with this vid) arrived a theme of duality. I knew the focus would be on Angel - because, hey, my vid - but I wanted Spike to also be part of the POV. This is not so much Angel thinking about Spike as Angel not getting away from Spike because they are the same and if Angel is thinking it, then ya better believe Spike is there as well. If Angel feels it, than so does Spike. And, considering Spike becoming souled at the end of season 6 - the duality became very attractive to me.
I think it is a case of trying to find an angle for a vid - a hook - and then becoming so enraptured with the concept that it changes the way you view the show. There have been some fics and vids that have done that for me, other people's fics and vids, but this was the first time I did it to myself. So showing the duality became the focus - easy concept to vid, all things considered. The problem of detextualizing the clips (a huge issue considering I am making a slash video where the pairing shares very little actual screen time together) was solved and man, that was fun to do.
But I couldn't figure out where to go from there: Angel=Spike, fine - this is good, this can be intense, this can actually be relentless - but why should I care? How does it end? Because if this is just an exercise in Wow! These two vamps sure have a lot in common, then I was wasting everyone's time. It wouldn't be enough to sustain the intensity of the lyrics. Something had to be at stake and the vid had to end. I had no idea how to end it. I knew I wanted Spike's "of course it's the blood" speech - and I knew I wanted Angel's denial and then what...
The answer was so very obvious. It even goes back to "In the Dark" - what do they want? What is all this about - what keeps them going if you take away Buffy (and in this vidverse she doesn't need to exist) and it goes beyond any physical desire - They need forgiveness. Redemption. Closer to God. But - wait. God doesn't want you. Either of you. There is no redemption - because they are damned.
So I turn around and excitedly share this withdrdawn - a staunch Spike Redemptionista. And she wanted to argue that no - Spike could be redeemed. And I asked her what part of damned did she not understand. They made deals with the devil (demon) in effect and there was no reversing that. Damned is damned is damned. So, I made Dawn all sad and she asked if I thought redemption was impossible and I told her that in this vid - it is.
I knew it would work the moment I toldsockkpuppett the idea and she immediately started saying things along the lines of "The Garden is closed. God doesn't need new friends" to the boys. She may have even cackled at them. I'm not sure. I think there was cackling, maybe that was me. I know there was a certain sick, shared glee in their pain. Then missmurchison started sending me engravings of Dante's Inferno (which actually, now that I think about it, probably preceded the idea of eternal damnation, so I owe you a debt of thanks Miss M.) and it just went from there.
And now that I have just rehashed the concept behind a vid that is almost a year old, and really - I know people got the duality part, but the there-is-no-redemption part was something that I just held in my head and kept me from veering off at the end. It kept me focused and that is something I need when I vid. I need a story - even if it is only my story - to stick with. But what is my point?
I want the show to go there. This is what I want. Angel=Spike=Damned. Then I want them to be granted mercy. Cause of the love. But no mercy for a very, very long time. Cause of the sexy.
Let's talk about Angel and Spike, shall we?
Cutting for
aexia because I eventually talk about season 5 - at least what I want out of season 5 - but I never get around to referencing anything in particular. So Xia can read this and now I am cutting for an exceedingly self-indulgent post about "Closer."I remember last year - around this time - just repeatedly slamming my head on the desk trying to make "Closer" work. I also remember bugging everyone under the sun with it. Most of the problem stemmed from me not knowing where I wanted the vid to go. Yes - here is Angel. Here is Spike. Someone wants to fuck someone like an animal. Okay. What else ya got? Why *this* song to *these* vamps? What do the lyrics say? Well then, how can you interpret them?
And some of it was obvious - you can't have my absolution/ You can't have the hate that it brings - and I mean, well yeah - I can see where that fits and why
kita0610 picked it. But I had to think about that. That line. And eventually we (cause it was really a group process with this vid) arrived a theme of duality. I knew the focus would be on Angel - because, hey, my vid - but I wanted Spike to also be part of the POV. This is not so much Angel thinking about Spike as Angel not getting away from Spike because they are the same and if Angel is thinking it, then ya better believe Spike is there as well. If Angel feels it, than so does Spike. And, considering Spike becoming souled at the end of season 6 - the duality became very attractive to me.
I think it is a case of trying to find an angle for a vid - a hook - and then becoming so enraptured with the concept that it changes the way you view the show. There have been some fics and vids that have done that for me, other people's fics and vids, but this was the first time I did it to myself. So showing the duality became the focus - easy concept to vid, all things considered. The problem of detextualizing the clips (a huge issue considering I am making a slash video where the pairing shares very little actual screen time together) was solved and man, that was fun to do.
But I couldn't figure out where to go from there: Angel=Spike, fine - this is good, this can be intense, this can actually be relentless - but why should I care? How does it end? Because if this is just an exercise in Wow! These two vamps sure have a lot in common, then I was wasting everyone's time. It wouldn't be enough to sustain the intensity of the lyrics. Something had to be at stake and the vid had to end. I had no idea how to end it. I knew I wanted Spike's "of course it's the blood" speech - and I knew I wanted Angel's denial and then what...
The answer was so very obvious. It even goes back to "In the Dark" - what do they want? What is all this about - what keeps them going if you take away Buffy (and in this vidverse she doesn't need to exist) and it goes beyond any physical desire - They need forgiveness. Redemption. Closer to God. But - wait. God doesn't want you. Either of you. There is no redemption - because they are damned.
So I turn around and excitedly share this with
drdawn - a staunch Spike Redemptionista. And she wanted to argue that no - Spike could be redeemed. And I asked her what part of damned did she not understand. They made deals with the devil (demon) in effect and there was no reversing that. Damned is damned is damned. So, I made Dawn all sad and she asked if I thought redemption was impossible and I told her that in this vid - it is. I knew it would work the moment I told
sockkpuppett the idea and she immediately started saying things along the lines of "The Garden is closed. God doesn't need new friends" to the boys. She may have even cackled at them. I'm not sure. I think there was cackling, maybe that was me. I know there was a certain sick, shared glee in their pain. Then missmurchison started sending me engravings of Dante's Inferno (which actually, now that I think about it, probably preceded the idea of eternal damnation, so I owe you a debt of thanks Miss M.) and it just went from there. And now that I have just rehashed the concept behind a vid that is almost a year old, and really - I know people got the duality part, but the there-is-no-redemption part was something that I just held in my head and kept me from veering off at the end. It kept me focused and that is something I need when I vid. I need a story - even if it is only my story - to stick with. But what is my point?
I want the show to go there. This is what I want. Angel=Spike=Damned. Then I want them to be granted mercy. Cause of the love. But no mercy for a very, very long time. Cause of the sexy.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2003-10-17 02:27 pm (UTC)I love this. I love this like I love my only child. And I am reminded again why I love you.
no subject
Date: 2003-10-17 02:35 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-10-17 02:47 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-10-17 02:53 pm (UTC)"You saved me"
"I was too late"
when Angel and Nina were talking about her being bitten. Chilling little statement: it's too late for you, you can't be saved. I don't know that I'd ultimately want the show to be about a world without redemption, but I wouldn't mind if they flirted with that idea a little.
Angel=Spike=Damned. Then I want them to be granted mercy. Cause of the love. But no mercy for a very, very long time. Cause of the sexy.
Sounds good. :)
no subject
Date: 2003-10-17 02:59 pm (UTC)Whether they are or not? I want them to *think* they are. And then the hopeless, what-the-hell sexy. If I had my druthers. Then? Leave it all up in the air.
no subject
Date: 2003-10-17 03:12 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-10-18 11:38 am (UTC)What would make him happy now?
no subject
Date: 2003-10-17 04:59 pm (UTC)Now is one of them.
should we talk about the weather?
Date: 2003-10-18 04:07 am (UTC)Interesting. Here it's been bright, sunny, and at least 90 degrees. As a matter of fact, so was yesterday. And the day before that. Come to think of it...
Undercover Brother here. Truthseekersara will have to supply the official clearance, but at some point you may want to consider a break from cloudiness, if only to visit your famous cousin (who is very wise in dealing strictly with humans).
UB
no subject
Date: 2003-10-19 10:06 pm (UTC)I realized reading this post that I never send feedback on videos, and I don't know why. I enjoy them as much as stories. Maybe it's because I have no idea what goes into making a video -- it seems like it just appears and is beautiful, so I don't realize the thought and hard work behind it. So thanks for sharing, both the thoughts and the videos.
no subject
Date: 2003-10-23 05:28 am (UTC)Yes, the damnation theme makes sense.
For the past few weeks I found myself reminded of Caudius, the murderous King in Hamlet, and the scene in which he prays for forgiveness. Only, he does not believe that God will ever grant him forgiveness, not as long as he still holds the crown and the queen's hand in marriage. Not ever, because his deeds are beyond redemption. Claudius believes himself damned and damns himself with his lack of faith in God's infinite ability to forgive.
In a way Spike is quickly going through the phases Angel went through: insanity, pain, then the idea that you can 'buy' your way back into grace with good deeds - as if there's a ledger of good and evil deeds, trying to balance the books, then the idea that maybe you can cheat your way out of destiny, that you can use science to get off one step before hell.
And now? Both think they're damned. If they die, they have everything to lose. How do you deal with this? And with the knowledge that there's so much evil everywhere that saving people seems pointless, especially without any reward.
Contrast that with Fred's instinct to help because it's the right thing to do...
The quality of mercy, I think that's what this season is about. :-)