Talking About Angel...

[sisabet]

I have to cut for "Home"


Oh My God. I just quit crying. I am literally reeling. They just did an "I Will Remember You" for season 3-4. And Angel killed Connor to free him - he went over to the dark side for love - but now he is the only one that will carry the memory of that love...I might cry again.

Here is where I just don't get the anger at ME for supposed Spike-abuse: have ya'll seen the deal Angel gets handed repeatedly? You can directly understand how much ME loves you by how much they shit on you... I could say more, but I need to go watch the promo for "End of Days" on repeat for awhile. Dear God - Angel gets the shaft.

Comments

[kittyb90.livejournal.com]

I just quit crying.

I am right there with you. That was such a beautiful scene, and, as I've already said once this evening, anyone who thinks DB can't act can kiss my ass. The depth of emotion that he displayed... I may just start crying again thinking about it. Brilliant, just fucking brilliant.

[luminosity]

My heart broke for Angel in that last bit with Connor. And masterfully played by DB. And Connor! "You let him take me..." Oh God.

Will watch again tomorrow and cry some more, and my GOD. PLEASE renew Angel. Geez.

[thran.livejournal.com]

I'm so with you. Angel is the most-beat-upon character in Whedonverse, and if someone can prove to me otherwise, I shall be very impressed.

But Angel letting W&H create a beautiful lie for Connor to live? Isn't that (creation of a beautiful lie) just what they spent several episodes fighting against? I'm bewildered. But anyway.

[elz.livejournal.com]

I'm so with you. Angel is the most-beat-upon character in Whedonverse, and if someone can prove to me otherwise, I shall be very impressed.

Word. It universally, categorically, always and forever sucks to be Angel. Anyone who claims otherwise has never really watched the show.

But Angel letting W&H create a beautiful lie for Connor to live? Isn't that (creation of a beautiful lie) just what they spent several episodes fighting against?

It's ironic in that sense, but on another level, Angel is actually giving Connor the choices that he never had instead of taking them away - he's giving him the foundation that he needs to be able to *make* rational, moral decisions. Before that, Connor had been so manipulated and so broken that he really didn't have any sort of base level of normal humanity with which to start over. Unlike the rest of the characters, Connor never had a childhood, or innocence, or love - he was doomed from the moment that Holtz took him through that portal, and rewriting that history may have been the only way to save him.

So actually, maybe Connor is the most screwed character in the Whedonverse. Angel is still a close second, though. *g*

[sparkledark.livejournal.com]

Oh hell, yes. Angel is the most put-upon, miserable character in the entire Jossverse. He's just not as emotive as Spike, so his pain isn't as obvious all the time. But it's always there, and he's always, ultimately, alone. And yeah, a lot of times- like tonight- he makes the choice to be alone, which is a choice Spike isn't really given, but it's almost always for the good of the people he loves that he does it. Poor sweet vampire. He needs a hug.

[beamer242.livejournal.com]

Poor sweet vampire. He needs a hug.

and I know just the bleach blonde vampire who should give it to him.

[kita0610.livejournal.com]

I'm just...there aren't even words.

"You let him take me."

Christ. *bursts into tears again*.

Dave just kicks my ass.

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

Dawn's all "My vid just got Jossed!"

I really can't express how this episode killed me - over and over again and thoroughly. I may not recover.

Word

[kamilaa.livejournal.com]

Dave just kicks my ass.

Dave kicked everybody's ass tonight. Dear God. The look on his face when he felt the sun. The mall scene...I'm with you, sisabet, there are no words. Just none. The most I can manage is to do what I'm doing here: point at something and say, "Yep, what she said." So I'm just going to do that now. *points at your entry and all the lovely comments*

What y'all said. :)

And if there ever was a time for the Grr Argh beastie to reprise his "I need a hug" bit, tonight would've been it. I'm just sayin'...

[redqueen6238.livejournal.com]

I like Angel. I like Spike. I wish people didn't turn it into some kind of contest. It's really okay to like both.

That said. I just wanna comment on why people talk about ME and Spike-abuse so much. I think it's not necessarily about what actually happens, but how it's depicted. Angel's struggles are noble. The shit that gets shoveled on him is horrible, but it's always shown to be that - shit. Unfair. Something for him to work through. Spike deals with shit and it gets reconfigured into some lame bad-boyfriend plot. The characters on the show don't justify his struggle (except Buffy. Finally. To a certain extent.) No one on AtS would ever imply that it doesn't make a difference that Angel has a soul the way Xander and Dawn to Spike on BtVS. No one on AtS would shrug their shoulders if Angelus had chosen to go get a soul rather than run around town talking crazy to the Beast Master in his head. They would have thought it was amazing. Wesley would have done some research and found some prophesies. Fred and Cordy would have hugged him. Someone would have cared.

So I agree. Angel gets a raw deal. Possibly the rawest. But everyone knows it. He has friends that feel bad for him and that support him in his struggles. He was much worse off when he was on BtVS. Where, again, it was pretty much only Buffy who was on his side.

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

No one on AtS would ever imply that it doesn't make a difference that Angel has a soul the way Xander and Dawn to Spike on BtVS.

When have Xander and Dawn implied it does not matter that Spike has a soul? I don't get that - at all - watching the show. If anything, Xander has become more concerned about Spike (see: "Sleepers" and "Never Leave Me") and Dawn has pretty much kept her moutyh shut except for asking Buffy is she loved him in "Him." - No, they aren't running around asking Spike out to the movies, but then again, they are not his friends - they are Buffy's (and sister). I feel that souled Spike gets treated a helluva lot better than souled Angel ever did by the Scoobies.

Buffy has been nothing but understanding toward Spike since he got a soul. She has supported and "believed" in him - these things can be done without making someone your boyfriend.

I guess what I am saying is I don't see the Spike abuse - at all. Spike is where he chose to be. Yes - Angel has friends - but I don't know that he is any less lonely than Spike when all is said and done. Spike just got his soul and is adjusting - it took Angel over 100 years to become semi-comfortable around people and he still holds himself apart. I think my boys need each other, but I am tired of this becoming "Omigod, everyone is mean to Spike - fuck ME!" when basically that is inherent with drama. Dude, Angel lost his child twice. How mean is that?

[luvs-phoenix.livejournal.com]

Yes. Just. Yes.

[luvs-phoenix.livejournal.com]

What I want to know is why should Angel even try anymore? I cannot imagine what it must be like to give up (and yet remember) all the love you could ever want. First with Buffy. Now Connor.

I would quietly be playing with my dolls, in the corner, with Dru, by now.