And Ye of Little Feedback, Band Together - For Now is the Hour of....Something.

[sisabet]

sockkpuppett linked and lo she was right: fantastic post on feedbacking vidders here:

The Vid Feedback Project

Of course, thefourthvine's little experiment combined with the fact that just yesterday I accidentally clicked on my "bulk mail" folder (I was aiming for drafts) and found an email from renenet, has me convinced that a majority of my feedback gets sorted into my spam folder by yahoo. Of course, after I found the email from renenet, I sorted thru as much of my bulk mail as I could tolerate and this was the only nonspam mail. But still! It could happen! I could be RICH in feedback. Swimming in it, even and I just never knew. Like "The Princess Diaries" except feedback is my long lost Julie Andrews Grandma.

Hey, I have no right to complain about feedback because as far as vidders go - you dudes treat me right nice (I usually average - including LJ comments/emails - at least 1-3% something per download. Not that I've sat and figured it out *whistles*). Especially considering my own personal "Need to send FB list." Right now I am not even really reading new fic - I am sorting thru my bookmark folder trying to figure out the best way to approach this vast vista of under-appreciated authors and the many hours upon hours of joy they have given me.

I was also gonna do a BIG huge DS fic rec's post using my bookmarks and I was gonna just do it alphabetically, and then I realized that I am in no way capable of of a short, pithy recs phrase for certain things. Round about my 4th paragraph of just incoherant "OMG I LOVE THIS SO MUCH" for "About a Dog" I gave up. Of course, "About a Dog" was also my first fic in line.

Hmmmm....::searches private LJ posts::

Aha! I found the rec for this story and I am gonna post it behind a cut as an example of my extreme ineptitude in brevity even though this post is supposed to be about feedback. I took a recommendation tangent. And a left at Alberquerque. Also? Really hard for me to talk about why I love a story without spoiling same story. People with really quality rec pages? I should be feedbacking you! What you do is hard.

So - I should feedback more, you should feedback more - we all should speak up and appreciate each other a bit more. It is soooo easy to say this. It is! It is also easy for me to say that I need to get up earlier and work harder and cook more and eat less cookies and donate more money to charity and volunteer my time and learn to ice skate backwards and call my mother more on the phone and be kinder to my sisters and more temperant in my thoughts and call my congressman and figure out where I stand on this waterboard takeover and read the local paper more and take Sid to the vet to have his nails trimmed regularly and go to bed before midnight and pay every single bill on time every single month. It is extremely easy for me to say all of those things but in practice? They are beyond me. I'm trying but for the most part success as an adult is an elusive thing.

But feedback is important and fandom is where I go to cope when my failures at all of the above threaten to flatten my spirit - so perspective, y'know? So instead of saying we need to do such and such - we need to band together to encourage one another to do instead of say.

Suggestions? So far the best I have hinges upon accountability - much as a lot of y'all post word counts to show progress, however plodding, maybe something similar will work with feedback. The buddy system! You pick a buddy and you tell that buddy that you are gonna send 2 people some sort of feedback this week and the buddy tells you the same (or more or less or whatever - be a BUDDY) and then you followup with each other. So when the Appreciation Gods blow the whistle and we all have to get outta the pool - you and your buddy are a-o-kay.

Or you could do some sort of goal-setting within LJ, I suppose. The "such and such" appreciation days are nice, but when you consume as much as, well me, you need Appreciation MONTHS to even make a dent in it all.

::think, think, think::

Oh - and this is my favorite: The Fandom Feedback Circle. It is like you are Amish and at a quilting circle, only it is more about the quality of the porn and hotness of the vids. So you are an Amish Pervert! Embrace it! See, are you scared to death of a particular writer, vidder, artist? There is safety in numbers - gather up tidbits of thoughts, love, squee, and questions from like-minded friends and assemble it into a giant email of DOOM and hit send. You don't even have to be afraid of the fan in question as everyone loves a multi-peopled message of appreciation. It is just a nice thing to do. I feel like Martha Stewart now - which is totally cool as her street cred has jumped tremendously since prison.

What are your thoughts? The idea here is to motivate us to either get off our asses (if that is the problem) and over the fear (if that is the hang-up) or past the shyness (if that is the issue) and tell each other: "Hey - good job!"

Concrit is actually something else and the positive/negative issue is yet another pile of something else and really - I am mostly talking here about shit you liked. Cause there is a lot of stuff you probably like and if you are telling everyone that makes something that you liked "Thanks!" then you are so one-up on me and we need to talk cause dude, I need help.

And as promised, the first entry into my unfortunately not to be rec's page behind the cut. Also - I kinda spoil the story. I try hard not to, but like I said - RECS ARE HARD!



About a Dog

One of the first fics I read in this fandom. Not *the* first fic - but... the first one to make me cry. I almost didn't keep reading it, actually, which would have been a *huge* mistake, because I was an emotional wreck and that was only one page into the story.

The wonderful blend of the magical realism found on the show and how she shows Fraser processing things it is just... I mean WOW. Seriously, wow.

Fraser stared into the fire-scarred wreckage, still hoping for some sign of Diefenbaker. Raphaella La Scala, of course, hadn't made it out either, but he couldn't even pretend to be looking for her. As far as Fraser was concerned, she'd deserved whatever she got.

But Diefenbaker... goddammit. Fraser dropped his eyes, training them on the sidewalk before him, irritated at himself for his self-pity. But it did seem too...well, just too goddamned much. He didn't think he could stand to lose Diefenbaker--Dief was all he had left. Diefenbaker, and his job, and perhaps a dufflebag's worth of clothes, and--

God - see how much is communicated in just this passage? - Fraser is not wanting to accept what has happened to Dief and his internal voice is gradually growing angrier and losing a bit of his control and I just am filled with the knowledge of what this is doing to him.

Later:

At five minutes to six, Fraser capped his pen and put it into the top drawer of his desk. He got up, reached for his peacoat, put on his hat and gloves--and he was halfway down the hallway to the door when he remembered that he didn't have to walk Diefenbaker.

And here is where I just lost it because, this nails it. I mean - I kept reading and obviously, I am glad I did because OMG this is the best story. And so I am telling you now: just keep reading. Seriously - so good, and one of the things that does make it so very very good is that she doesn't over-exploit the intense hollowness of losing... well not a pet, but really his sole constant companion. This is how it feels to lose and this is how Fraser experiences it and it was extremely moving.

Not to mention - Fraser, in his head, is one totally catty bitch, in a totally noncatty bitch way. I love that.

When he looked up, she was standing in his doorway wearing a little black dress that left very little to the imagination. Which was a pity, really, because Fraser had quite a lot of imagination, and he liked to give it a workout whenever he could.

God, I love him.

::rereads story::

Oh, man! I LOVE THIS. I just can't even tell you what happens cause you have to read it - but it just...it could have happened! And I can't even quote my favorite parts cause it will totally ruin it for you if you haven't read it but just know this - it is brilliant and genius and Fraser losing his mind is a thing of absolute beauty. And Bob! And Ray! And! She does does echoes of "Burning Down the House" and it makes me so happy! And I swear I will stop with the exclamations soon! Maybe!

Except I just reread my favorite part! Man, this rec's post is gonna take forever.

Comments

Paving with intended feedback?

[batwrangler.livejournal.com]

How about a "50 Feedback Challenge" like the 50bookchallenge? (Of course, I am also completely stalled in my book reading despite the challenge....)

Re: Paving with intended feedback?

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

I think this is a great idea. Of course the number 50 looks scary. I mean - I know my owed feedback is in the thousands by now (well hundreds) so it isn't as if it would be hard to fill the 50 slots...just scary large number.

What do you think - cause I think a challenge would certainly be motivating to a lot of people.

Re: Paving with intended feedback?

[batwrangler.livejournal.com]

The "50" part does sound scary (though that's just one a week with two weeks off for good behavior), so maybe just make it the "Feedback Challenge"?

I need some semi-external way to set goals and get gentle prods to meet them and also cookies.

Re: Paving with intended feedback?

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

No, no - now I think the 50 is absolutely inherantly needed. I am all over the place. Ignore me.

Also? There are cookies?

[heresluck]

I *love* the idea of having a feedback buddy, and I think sending feedback to two people a week sounds totally manageable. (It amazes me how much poetry I've read since I committed to reading one book a week -- even though I miss a week now and then, it's SO MUCH MORE than if I weren't at least trying.)

Be my buddy? Or do you need to buddy up with renenet so you can squee about Due South fic together?

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

I would love to be your buddy! We have to be able to do 2 people a week - surely. I could even break it up and do one fic-feedback and one vid-feedback. Yes. This will work - BUDDIES!

[elinora.livejournal.com]

Just for the record, I love your vids. So there. And I'm commenting here, so I won't end up in your spammy folder with the penis enlargement ads.

Unless you like those ads, and have them forwarded right to your Inbox. I won't judge you harshly, since you are a talented arteest.

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

I am glad not to be judged. And thank you.

[bloodypoetry.livejournal.com]

I suck so much at feedback, I completely understand your problem. Everything you've made has been met with a resounding "OMG I'm dead, you rock, more pls!" *possibly with better spelling* From me. But, since you mentioned it, I am going to give huge props to the Fab Four that actually kicked me into the 'not so sucky' of vidding. You are one of them. Yay!

The first videos of yours I watched was Clint Eastwood. And I don't care what you say, that video was amazing. Considering the program you used, that video should have it's own religion. Seriously. It showed me what could be done. That clips didn't have to be big ole' long things. That videos could actually make your heart beat faster. And after that, you just kept getting better. I have no idea how many people in the vidding world think of you as a role model, but I do. Damnit. And of course, Closer basically changed (at least in our fandom) vidding forever. No one had ever (to my knowladge, at least) vidded two people who've never so much as touched each other in an obviously friendly way on screen , and made it look like they were constantly having wild sex.

But now I'm rambling. So...

Props to you!

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

You have never sucked with feedback with me - I do know that you suffer, same as the rest of us, with the intimidation factor. Well that and how do you even find the time to BREATHE let alone send feedback??

I think being accountable to someone else will help get me off my duff and get to thanking people. But I don't have kids. I have no idea how to get you more free time.

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

You do great with the feedback - as far as I am concerned :)

Do not ever underestimate the value of the "initial SQUEE!" comment - especially if a vid or fic has just been posted to LJ (or for that matter has been there for years). It means a lot to the poster just to know she isn't vidding or talking into a void - that people are actually downloading her vid (or reading her story, or using her icons or any of a thousand things) and hopefully if they like it - they will tell her.

It can be very disheartening to check on your bandwidth and see that a vid has been downloaded *A LOT* since posted and you have almost no comments. Warranted or not - a lot of people can immediately decide that it just wasn't liked. I mean, you try not to go there - but sometimes irrationality rules.

And I *know* that people download vids and then watch them later and finding the post that you dled from is a hassle and sometimes you just forget and you actually really enjoyed the work. I know this and hell - I am as guilty as anyone of this. Lack of feedback or comments rarely has anything to do with the quality of your work - it can hinge upon something as mundane as the time of day or week that you posted.

And like I said - I am actually pretty well-feedbacked...is that a word? I think it is about par for the course that you'll get something beit a comment or an email, per every 100+ downloads. Sometimes I am up in the 3% range (especially if it is a fandom that is popular and really active at the time of posting) although I've had vids that get a response, any kind of response, about .0005% per download. And the natural human reaction to that is that people hated it. They hated you. You suck. It isn't rational and it certainly isn't true and hopefully you will get over it but it is there.

I posted a vid over a year ago and I knew a few important people liked it. I liked it. I figured everyone else either didn't get it - or hated it, so a few months down the line when I started seeing it rec'd and actually started getting feedback on it - I was kinda shocked. I had gone to the valley of despair with this vid (they hates it! My PRECIOUS!!) and climbed out on the other side happy with what I had done, despite the lack of validation and then BOOM - validation.

So, I do try to keep a healthy mentality about this. I am vidding for an audience - to be sure. But that audience is tiny and comprised of me and a few others and as long as we are happy, I have that. If other people are happy or enjoying my work - that just needs to be gravy. But yeah...sometimes I do look at the number of downloads and wonder if I should just invest in a DVD burner and put out a disc once a year for my buds instead. Then I get over myself and remember that for the most part - the people dling my stuff are just like me and suck at sending regular and prompt feedback.

So she who sends no emails shall not cast any stones. It says that in the Bible. ::nods authoritatively::

Ces not logged in from the road

[(Anonymous)]

Er--yay! *waves flag!* I read this for what it was saying about feedback, and then yay, it was me! yay! me! I'm so happy you liked it, and you totally have to email me and tell me what your favorite part actually IS.

Re: Ces not logged in from the road

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

YAY! OMG I do have to tell you what my favorite part was because you really destroyed and rebuilt me with this story. It was like Marine Basic Training. Except with a dog.

[batwrangler.livejournal.com]

You are brilliant, and "About a Dog" is brilliant, and I am only a third of the way through, but I am pausing so that it lasts longer, and thank you for pointing me at it. :takes breath, smiles, and heads back to rec'd fic:

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

Isn't it absolutely wonderful?