Lies My Parents Told Me

[sisabet]

Spoilers - I'm a-cutting


So - Dru really did fuck up when she made Spike. He ain't right in the head. When they talk about how "special" Spike is they mean "short bus" special, ya'll. He's a retarded vampire. Vampires aren't supposed to still be attached to people from their former life - witness Angel and Penn. Spike is strange. And I'm kinda uncomfortable about his Mommy Issues. Did ya'll see William's package? Damn. Kinda hard to believe he didn't have a girlfriend (I bet Angel noticed right away)...oh wait... Victorian England.

So Spike is no longer haunted by his past? Now he is over it? Cause, a little more remorse might be nice...just saying...century of killing and all...

I'm pissed that Buffy is all about the mission right now. Man, the mission sucks, don't kill Dawn, 'kay Buffy? Or Giles. I like Giles.

Can Xander have 2 lines next episode? Please? Somebody? Anybody?

I liked Anya's hat but had a difficult time deciphering the reason for it. Is there a deeper hat meaning I missed?

Wood is so freaking hot I wouldn't blame Spike for biting him. I want to bite him.

Hmmm, Buffy...Spike's a warrior now? What is he "shooting down the walls of heartache"? And please - please in all that is good and holy - do not vid that now. Please. I do beg of you.

Pretty shots that need vidding. Otherwise, no FFL Deux, but okay.

Comments

[kita0610.livejournal.com]

Sigh.

Souled!Spike is duller than Angel ever was. At least he has better hair in the 70's tho.

Is headtilt back up yet?? I need my fix, damnit!

Re:

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

I was in love with the Angel mullet.

Dawn says the site goes back up today. Then she said, "No promises." Girl starts vidding Wes/Abgel and lets the site go down for a week. Grrrr

YOUR ICON!!!

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

Double post and I don't care!!! I love your icon!

I have sat here at work just watching it for almost half an hour. I am mesmerized. Holy Shit!!!!

[luminosity]

I'd *KILL* for that icon.

ok.. not kill, but, ummm..

Re:

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

I'd probably kill for it. I want to vid it. Just the icon. In a continuous loop.

Re:

[luminosity]

can we have more nekkidity? I mean, if we're vidding it?

Dammit! AE!!

[luminosity]

ah. I said "we." Freudian slip.

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

You're right though - we'd have to share. It wouldn't be right, one single person hogging that glorius nekkidity all for herself. There seems to be enough to go around.

[hecatehatesthat.livejournal.com]

He's a retarded vampire. Vampires aren't supposed to still be attached to people from their former life - witness Angel and Penn.

Flashback Spike did seem awful Spilliam-y, but I'm not sure Angel (and Penn) is the standard un-attached vamp while Spike is the sport; I think it may just depend on the individual demon that takes over the human body combined with the body's memory and personality and what all.

Harmony still considered Cordelia a friend and made a conscious effort not to bite her post-vamping, and what about that vampire couple from the AtS S3 premier? I can't remember their names, but I thought they were together pre-vamping as well as post. And Dru still seems to care in some twisted fashion about her human family, or did when she was torturing Angel for killing them all.

And while the Judge couldn't kill Angelus, Spike and Dru weren't the only vampires susceptible to him; he killed Dalton because of the "humanity" in him; I tend to think Angel is the exception with his extreme badass-ness.

And I'm kinda uncomfortable about his Mommy Issues. Did ya'll see William's package? Damn. Kinda hard to believe he didn't have a girlfriend (I bet Angel noticed right away)...oh wait... Victorian England.

Wait, when could you see his package? I musta missed it -- not been looking at his crotch or something, but I wanna see! Also, hee.

And word on the borderline squickiness of Spike's mommy issues. Yikes. What is with all the Oedipal angst this year? Yikes.

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[sisabet.livejournal.com]

Ah - but see - Harmony and Dru are retarded vampires as well - Angel made Dru messed up on purpose and Harmony proves that just because you get a demon, it doesn't mean you gain IQ points. Of course, being turned during graduation - there was a lot going on - possibly her siring was screwed up as well...

I absolutely feel Angelus is special, one of a kind evil - but I also think that tenderly turning your mommy while trying not to hurt her is messed up un-vamp logic and not the natural order of things.

[hecatehatesthat.livejournal.com]

Harmony and Dru are retarded vampires as well

Sure, I can agree with that. And then we really are talking about evil vampire-ness as a spectrum, and they really could have a metaphorical "special bus" (or tart cart as we called them at my elementary school) for the vamps on the low end, the Williams and Drus and Harmonys of the vamp world, while the Angeluses are attending schools for the gifted and learning about the artistry of killing.

Wasn't it sweet of Angelus to tutor the slow kids? It really goes to show you how much difference a good teacher can make; Spike got pretty good at the evil thing for over a century.

I also think that tenderly turning your mommy while trying not to hurt her is messed up un-vamp logic and not the natural order of things.

*giggle*

Agreed.

At least he turned Mommy correctly (or whatever; I think it may have more to do with the individual demon taking up residence than the turning process), so the demon whipped out all the irritated things she'd ever thought about sweet William and gave him more of a complex.

I wonder if it was the mommy incident that spurred William into the name-and-accent change Angel commented on in FFL; proving he wasn't that guy anymore, although of course we all know his mum was right, and he'll always be a sentimental fool. Aaaaw.

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[sisabet.livejournal.com]

Aha! Spike is a fucked up vamp and he knows it!! He has been over-compensating for a century!!! I always thought it was to impress Angel, but now I am beginning to wonder... Good Lord stop me now, the world certainly doesn't need another Spike essay in it.

[just-eunice.livejournal.com]

When they talk about how "special" Spike is they mean "short bus" special, ya'll. He's a retarded vampire.

He just wanted his mommy. It's so...Spike...that I love it. I almost fell off the couch laughing at the expression on Dru's face when she asked "You..you want to bring your mother with us?" Mum was right, turn him into a vicous brutal killer and he'll still always be a sentimental fool. As for the Oedipal issues, I honestly didn't see them on his side at all...either pre or post vamping. I saw vamp mummy twisting the closeness of the relationship to hurt him. Single mother, only son. I know this dynamic. Hell, I live this dynamic. It's a close one. And with a sensitive child it's even closer. But yes, I find it fascinating that unlike the other vampires we've seen, we now have on screen evidence that Spike never completely got rid of William. I do think Dru may very well have screwed up his siring. 'Cause from the get go he's one confused vampire. Even before we knew any of this with his devotion to Dru.

So Spike is no longer haunted by his past? Now he is over it? Cause, a little more remorse might be nice...just saying...century of killing and all...

Pragmatism. It's always been one of Spike's strong suits. He can't do anything about the past. How do you make up for a hundred years of killing? You can't. And at the moment there is no time for weepy self-reflection. It was Buffy made that clear to him, demanded he put it aside to fight this war. So he did. I don't think it's that he doesn't feel remorse. I think it's that he sees there is no point to it. It's done, he can't undo it, can't make up for it, can't apologize for it. All he can do is what he can *now*. He doesn't have time to sit around in an alley eating rats and feeling sorry for himself for a hundred years. And, honestly I think Angel would have been much better served if he had been presented with the same "Get up and fight" circumstances much earlier in his souling. I think we'll see more of Spike's remorse...I just don't think he's letting it cripple him anymore. And that he was royally pissed off about Wood, not just for trying to kill him...but using the trigger against him. Hell, I'd be pissed off too.

I understand why Giles and Wood did what they did. I do. But it was wrong. Keeping him chained up until the trigger was truly de-activated? Yeah, I can see getting Buffy out of the way long enough to do that (she really wasn't thinking clearly on that point). Killing Spike behind Buffy's back? No. Had Giles up front said to Buffy "I feel he's too dangerous to live, and this is not personal"...and meant it. And then gone to stake him up front and with no deception? I would have said he had every right, even if he'd succeeded in making a pile of dust. Not like that though. It was disrespectful to Buffy, and to Spike (and yes, fighting with them as he has earns him at least *some* decency in the way he's treated). Wood, well, Wood was all about vengeance and retribution...not about anything else. It never should have been his decision to make, or his action to carry out. Not under these circumstances.

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[sisabet.livejournal.com]

He just wanted his mommy.

He did! He did only want his mommy!!! Awww and ewww...

Dude Dru screwed up his vamping - I've always figured that she had him half turned and started freaking out and Angel had to finish up the job (and I do not believe last night Joss'd that theory). I really think there is evidence that Dru is not good at the whole siring business in canon: I mean, how many evil lawyers does it take to ensure she didn't screw up the last time we saw her vamp someone?

. I think we'll see more of Spike's remorse...

I hope to God we do - otherwise my Angel/Spike vid idea has been Joss'd to hell as well.

[luminosity]

Dude Dru screwed up his vamping - I've always figured that she had him half turned and started freaking out and Angel had to finish up the job...

Dude!! I can so go there! I've been pissed off ever since they seemed to abandon the outburst from SH ("You were my sire, man! My Yoda!") because I immediately thought of Yoda's Great Big Sword and then extrapolated. *cough* heh. I said "ex-strap-o-late."

Dru prolly half-vamped him and forgot about him till Angel showed up and let Spike have a taste.

You know.. Slashers are born, not made. :)

Re:

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

But really - that is the most likely way it happened. Spike may want to gloss over his inauspicious beginnings but we know the truth. There is no way Dru did it correctly - and Angel most likely had to clean up her mess. Wolfram and Hart knew this when they recruited her to turn Darla - how long did she have to stay at Lindsey's apartment and be psyched up for the vamping- and in "The Trial" do you notice how many lawyers are actually surrounding Dru when she gets ready to do the deed? They must have heard the stories - I mean they have that whole research room devoted to Angel and all...

It makes sense, it keeps Angel as Spike's sire and it pleases me. This is how belief systems are formed.

[7spoons.livejournal.com]

All manner of WORD. Much as I like sisabet's "retarded vamp" scenarop, cuz it's funny, and she's hilarious, and she almost has me loving Angel as much as she does, I think I'll go with just plain "special," in the most positive sense. I love Spike more than ever in the afterglow of this amazing ep. And I agree about Spike's pragmatism. He can't sit and feel sorry, no time. He did a bit of that, and it didn't do any good for anyone. Buffy needs him to be a warrior, and he'll be one. After all, fighting the First scores you big redemption points, too. Remorse isn't everything.

From katiedack

[(Anonymous)]

When they talk about how "special" Spike is they mean "short bus" special, ya'll. He's a retarded vampire.

This made me bust a gut. Thank you!