Questions (Eventually) About Smallville Fandom and Bo Duke (also Metropolis!) and Lex is J Geils!

[sisabet]

I was kinda bored this morning and not wanting to update my resume cause I really hate updating my resume and my phone doesn't work so of course my thoughts turned, as they so often do, well toward Angel, but then they turned to Smallville.

Specifically to questions I have about the fandom in general. See, I am not so much a participant in fandom as a very interested observer who sometimes peeks over fences to see what is going on. I am the nosy neighbor from "Bewitched" - I am the Gladys Kravitz of fandom. I have all sorts of opinions on just about everything, but actually going to the trouble of finding a board and registering and posting and having to interact with all those people and while I might like some, I'll probably be irritated by many and it just makes me tired.

Cutting for length

So I stay at home on my LJ and talk to anyone who stops by and try to keep up with what's going by peering at my fList. Which can leave me with very strange impressions in general - like I had no idea there were Clark/Lana shippers until linzeems told me. I just automatically assumed that everyone that watched the show, watched for Clark and Lex. Maybe some Chloe. I got this notion from the reviews at TWOP and everyone I know that watches Smallville, teenage girls included. Now I feel like the J Geils band or something... my blood is running cold and it is very possible that my memories have just been sold.

Oh! Like Lex!!!

::dreamy sigh::

Dude - I should totally vid that song to SV. Oh god. My sides hurt from laughing - I had to get a go get a drink of water. If I could stand the feminine pronoun being applied to a male character at all I would start clipping for it tonight.

Now listen:
It's okay, I understand
This ain't no never-never land
I hope that when this fish is gone
I'll see you when your clothes are on
Take your car, yes we will, we'll take your car and drive it
Take it to a motel room, and take 'em off in private
A part of me has just been wrecked
The pages from my mind are stripped
Oh no, I can't deny it
Oh yeah, I guess I got to buy it



OH! LUM!!! CHEAPSHOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

::adds to list::

I apologize for that unscheduled break in my post - shit like that happens 'round here though and I am certain that you would have already unfriended me if it really bugged you. If it does bug you and you are just holding out on the unfriending b/c you are worried about my self-esteem and all - please - don't. I can take the hit.

But the purpose of this post was... god - what was it? Oh yeah - I had questions about SV fandom - or rather - just stuff I've noticed:

1. Is it canon that Metropolis is in Kansas? I know it is canon that it is 3 hours by car away - but have they ever stated that means you are still in Kansas? Cause I know that I am 3 hours from Indianapolis and three hours from Nashville and neither of those cities are in Kentucky. So, couldn't Metropolis - at least theoretically - be in, Oklahoma? Missouri? Perhaps Colorado? I always thought growing up that it was Chicago and Gotham was New York - but I really like the idea that Clark will eventually settle in the city that is closest to the place he grew up. Even if he is super-sonic - I think it is appropriate. I just have a hard time wrapping my head around the idea of a major center of commerce being in Kansas.

Hey! Wasn't KC from "China Beach" from Kansas? I loved her.


2. Does everyone in the fandom hate Bo Duke? Cause I don't get that. I keep hearing (especially in fanfic) about how prejudiced he is and how he is a bigot and how he would never accept a gay son or how he is just so unfair to Lex and... well, it is like he is worse than Lionel. And I Just. Do. Not. See. It.

I love Bo Duke; well Jonathan Kent - but I call him Bo cause he is forever and ever Bo to me and that is something I cannot stop. What was once set in motion in a six-year old's heart cannot be undone.

I understand that I am not the norm in this regard - so even looking at the character of Jonathan Kent without my Bo Duke colored glasses, I still don't get the hate.

I think it might be cause Bo does not like or has acted in the past very unfairly (or what is percieved as unfairly) toward Lex.

I also think that most of the SV people I know are Lex-Fen. I totally get this. I mean - I love Clark and all, but I get the Lex thing and share it for the most part - I'm not about picking hot boy sides so much as revelling in the hot-boy presence. On both sides. From all angles. You get the picture.

So I decided that Lex is probably analogous to Spike in this fandom. That would make Jonathan the Xander and now it all makes sense.

A lot of my friends absolutely hated Xander during Buffy S6 because he picked on (as in hit and was verbally derisive) Spike. A lot of fen felt very protective toward Spike. I felt protective toward Xander - it made for some really interesting discussions where for the most part we were all talking at each other and no one was hearing the other and this is why I stay away from boards now -period.

But I got the animosity Xander felt toward Spike and while I felt that it was morally wrong to hit someone (even if provoked) and that wrongness is intensified when the person you hit is unable to fight back or defend themselves to an exponential degree - I also understood where that anger was coming from (Spike did try to kill him and Willow and did hold them hostage not so long ago) and while Xander was prejudiced (if you can call it that) toward demons/vamps but turned an almost blind eye toward Anya - I thought that was interesting. I thought that made him really really real. Not a 100% morally absolute character - but I wasn't watching for that and those kind of people are boring and also? Don't exist. I thought it was interesting that here is a guy who understandably hates vampires (best friend Jesse was killed and turned in the first ep - Xander accidentally stakes him and watches him turn to dust. I think his absolute intolerance for any vamp, even Angel, after that point was a defense mechanism. You can't acknowledge that a vampire can be "saved" or "redeemed" or whatever without having to admit that you did not save Jesse. Interesting) but is in a long-term relationship/almost marriage with an ex-demon. This kinda shit happens in real-life all the time - only the context is different. And yeah - the show did not explore this as thoroughly as some would like, but that is why we have fanfic.

That being said - I am *much* more protective of Lex than I am of Spike. Spike - he's made it over a hundred years without me worrying over him - I am not about to start now. He does not need to be coddled - he needs shit to do to keep him distracted and out of trouble. I am much more brusque with Spike. But I like him. Mostly.

Lex - well I do want to protect Lex and coddle him and feed him soup and smack those who would hurt his feelings upside the head. But - there is a path that he is on that cannot be stopped and I know and accept this and if it gets to be too much I will just go read lanning for a while and then I'm okay.

Because this is a show about Destiny with a capitol "D" and Lex believes that he has one and he is absolutely correct - he just doesn't know what it is. And that is for the best. For now.

And one of the things that possibly puts him on this path is the fact that he will never really be accepted by Jonathan Kent. Although for a brief period of time in S3 he was accepted by Bo - I am willing to ignore that here.

Does Bo's attitude about Lex and the Luthor's in general mean that he is a small minded bigot who put the red in redneck?

I don't think so - but I will acknowledge that I am not unbiased here. Not only is Jonathan Kent also Bo Duke to me, I am also knee-jerk about the topic of farmers-as-fathers as well seeing as how I was raised by one.

Farmer does not equal idiot or uneducated or misinformed. My father is one of the most intelligent people I know. We disagree about a lot of social issues - but I would not call him closed-minded. Sometimes I think he takes an opposing viewpoint from mine just to get me riled up - this is a family trait that my sisters also share. When push comes to shove I have never seen him turn his back on anyone in need. I have always considered that the measure of a man.

So let's think about the Jonathan of the show and the man I see in him: He grew up poor as a lot of us have done and he made the decision at some point to stay poor in order keep his family's farm going. Do not discount this - this is a conscious decision and he knew what it meant when he made it. Family farms are endangered and speaking as someone who has had to make this decision and chose the opposite of Jonathan - it is not easy either way and I think about it a lot. The fact that one day I may have to see my family's land cut up and sold off bothers me a lot. Not enough to want to cut tobacco, but still...

Jonathan also grew up in a town where probably the entire offensive line of his freshman football team was drafted. County kids go to war. Poor people go to war. Rich people don't. Even though he was too young to be drafted himself - the effects of watching this happen to his cohorts a few years ahead of him is not to be discounted. If you don't believe that Vietnam had a profound and lasting effect on rural America - go and find someone over the age of 40 who lived in the countryside and ask them what they think about Lyndon Johnson. It can be chilling. It can also influence forever how they view people born to privilege. Right or wrong - this is just how it is.

I'm not about making judgements anyway - I'm more about understanding why.

So, you have a poor farmer who meets this rich kid - but let's address the "kid" part as well - Lex is 21 when Jonathan meets him. He is past any milestone our society places on childhood (well - other than the renting a car and insurance dropping at 25 milestone) and especially in a place like Smallville - most 21 year olds are working, getting married and having kids. Lex is running the Plant - he is the largest employer in the region - he is young, but not a kid. Remember, Jonathan does not know Lex like we know Lex. He knows him as the spoiled son of the man who blackmailed him into betraying his hometown. He knows him as the idiot in the Porshe who would have killed his only son, if not for the fact that his only son is a super-powered Alien. And to Jon that is beside the point, because he will do anything - well almost anything - to protect his child.

I think that is admirable. I think he screws up all the time in this quest - but I think parents in general screw up a lot and kids still turn out more or less okay and a perfect parent would be so much less interesting. Yes - at first glance the Kent household appears like the Waltons - but take a closer look and underneath the platitudes there is a very stubborn man who is not right all the time but loves his family and his community and his land. I like that.

So - even if it wasn't Lex's fault (technically) when that land was poisoned and all of Jonathan's cattle died - I get the anger. I get the stubbornness.

Jonathan cried when this happened. That made me love him, cause dude - you would. And you would be pissed off for a very long time.

Hell - K.G. is still scared to come round my family's place and all he did was shoot my brother's dog in front of him and my mother 12 years ago. I vow this to you now though - I ever get my hands on that sumabitch it won't be pretty. I can't imagine what I would feel like if it was entire herd of cattle.

Hell - if it was just Split Ear and No. 43 that got it, I think that would devastate my daddy. Daddy've taken the money to replace them from LuthorCorp, but Daddy is much older and mellow now than he was. Jon hasn't been through enough just yet to get to that point.

So Jon loves his animals, loves his land and obviously is devoted to his family.

So when I read a fic where Jonathan turns his back on Clark when Clark comes out to him - I want to know where in the world did this come from? I can't imagine a universe where he would do that - I mean for starters - since when is he intolerant? He is an organic farmer - to other farmers Jon is a hippie. Jon is open to the fact that his only son was sent to Earth to rule it - he accepts all sorts of insane things about Clark every single day - his child defies the laws of physics - I don't really think a little thing like sexuality is going to be a deal-breaker.

Now I do think that if Jonathan found out about Lex's interest he'd be after him with a shotgun - but dude - remember how Martha felt about Desiree hitting on Clark? Same damn thing. Clark is a kid, 15-16 so far in canon (he's 17 now - right?) and these are adults interested in him.

The Boy is almost 15. If there was a 21 or 22 year old ANYONE interested in him I would also probably reach for the shotgun. Later I might stop to ask questions.

So I like that Jon isn't perfect and I get why he does things and I am kinda bothered when he is misunderstood or bashed cause dudes - if you hate Jon, then you probably won't like my father one bit and then that is fighting words and I am then obligated to defend my family's honor, it becomes this whole thing and really, if we just acknowlege that while Jon has his faults - the fact that the person most adversely affected by these faults just happens to be Lex does not make Jon an inherently evil person anymore than the fact that Xander had issues with Spike and treated him incorrectly makes Xander and evil evil man.

But maybe the entire fandom doesn't hate him. I don't know. Gladys often gets her information jumbled and I suppose it could be the same with me.

Comments

[thebratqueen.livejournal.com]

Hey! Wasn't KC from "China Beach" from Kansas? I loved her.

Yup. KC from KC. =)

[renenet.livejournal.com]

But KC is in Missouri. I mean, I think there may also be a smaller place across the river in actual Kansas that has that name also, but the well-known Kansas City is in Missouri. </librarian>

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

hehe - check out the comments below - in the Smallville-verse, the abbreviation for Kansas is KA.

::shudders::

[valarltd.livejournal.com]

Kansas City is a bi-state city. (Home town.)

The major part is in Missouri, but the Kansas side is wealthier, and many folk live on the MO side and work in KS. (my BiL and father being 2 of them)

[lildhampir.livejournal.com]

You hit my feelings for Bo er Jon perfectly. (He'll always be Bo Duke to me as well)

I don't believe he'd ever turn his back on Clark. There has been to many times when it would have been easier for him to do that, but look at last season. He made a deal with Jor to save his son and bring him back home. Was willing to risk his own life (as just about any parent would do for their child) in order to bring Clark home.

I don't see how he would accept everything that has happened thus far and suddenly say, "What? You're gay? Lex is your boyfriend? Well, go and don't look back, son."

Makes no sense to me. I don't think his problem with Lex being with Clark would have anything to do with Lex being a guy. It would have everything to do with Lex being a Luthor and as you said, major age difference.

[lexcorp-hope.livejournal.com]

1) Metropolis is in Kansas in canon, (http://www.loony-archivist.com/svffr/facts/img/ref/cc112.jpg) however, you have to remember that in this universe, the abbreviation for Kansas is KA instead of KS. It's used consistently, so either somebody fucked up early on and they kept it, or they've been doing it on purpose.

2) Not everybody hates Jonathan, though people do hate him more when he's vindictive toward Lex. (I think most people were pretty perturbed when Jonathan figured it was okay for Lex to suffer electroshock therapy rather than continue to hold on to the knowledge that Clark isn't exactly normal.)

[coffeeandink.livejournal.com]

Also, according to my flist, apparently in the Smallville universe, Kansas is not landlocked.

I know a scary amount about shows I've never watched. Fandom eats you, starting with your bottom.

[lexcorp-hope.livejournal.com]

There is a shipping dock in Metropolis! I like to think that it's on a very large river. This is what keeps me from crying whenever I see it. :)

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

There were shipping docks in New Orleans!! BIG HUGE ONES.

So KS could just be along the Mightly Mississippi?

[lexcorp-hope.livejournal.com]

That totally works for me. I hesitated to invoke the Mississippi, because my Geography is questionable, and I didn't know how far it extended.

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

Well - in real life the Mississippi goes along the other side of Missouri (not the side that actually touches KS) Now - since I am a vidder, I often flip clips horizontally to make the characters or the motion line up the way I want them to. This works as long as there is no writing or signs in the scene - if there is then you get the letters in mirror vision.

For the purposes of the shipping docks - I am prepared to View Missouri in mirror vision for at least 45 minutes a week as long as the pay-off is wet Clark.

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

Ka as Kansas is just - well it is painful. I don't know if I can take it. This could prevent me from ever enjoying anything SV ever again. Well - at least until someone takes off their shirt...

I think most people were pretty perturbed when Jonathan figured it was okay for Lex to suffer electroshock therapy rather than continue to hold on to the knowledge that Clark isn't exactly normal.

Well, I think it has been established that the only thing that Jonathan will not do to protect Clark (as he sees it) is kill. I also think that given the right circumstances - ie Lionel - Jonathan would break that one barrier. And I get it - it is his child - there is no rational thought or principle guiding that other than PROTECT. So, I think it makes his character more interesting - but not evil. Wrong-yes.

Lionel is the only character on any show that I have watched fannishly that I absolutely hate. And my hatred stems from the fact that regardless of what form it took, we know he was an abusive father to his child. I can't forgive or understand that.

[lexcorp-hope.livejournal.com]

Fortunately, it's the WB and the last time we saw Clark, he was nekkid. I bet he's nekkid again in the premiere, too. You won't have long to wait! :)

In re the Protect thingie, I totally agree! And that's the thing that really pisses people off about Jonathan: He sat there and would have let Roger Nixon kill him, then cart Clark off to some gummint lab because that's the line he wouldn't cross (and Lex did, so he didn't have to,) but the same guy who prevented his own murder and his son's vivisection, he actively discouraged Clark from preventing serious physical harm to him. I personally think that Jonathan's flaws and merits make him fascinating, including his hypocrisy (dude sold out his best friend to keep the baby, yo!!) See also: large, vocal contingent of fans who hate Clark for being a hypocrite when it comes to Lex and their opposite cousins, the large, vocal contingent of Clark fans who hate Lex for lying to and investigating Clark.

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

See - all this fandom hate is the exact reason I tend to just only operate out of LJ as my fannish outlet. I *like* that Clark is a screwed up intensely confused and conflicted teenager and that Lex is just as messed up, if not more, and that Jon will do some things and not other and is capable of extremes for his child because this makes them interesting. And I don't think that b/c Jon would not kill Nixon means he will never ever cross that line, because I think if right this minute - if it came down to Lionel Luthor's life or Lionel strapping Clark down on a lab table, then Jonathan would put a bullet between Lionel's eyes faster than we could blink.

And I don't think this would contradict the early S2 Jonathan at all because the danger is different and is immediate and represented by Lionel and Jon is *not* the same person he was then and is not the same person he was 15 years ago and is not the same person he was when he met Martha. But none of us are and this makes it fascinating.

So I don't get people who don't get that.

[lexcorp-hope.livejournal.com]

Me either, man. I've been fighting a losing battle for years trying to point out that flawed and complicated is *good*, for all the characters. But mostly, I'm just pissing into the wind, so I watch the show and talk to my friends about it, and pretend that I don't see the rest of fandom eating itself. I think you're totally right; I think if push came to shove, Jonathan *would* kill Lionel. (I don't, however, think that he would be able to kill Lex . He's disliked him all along, but he's had those moments where he recognized that Lex was, well, not Lionel, like with the compass for the wedding present, etc., and I don't think he could go that far.)

I had a heads up with fandom though- when your show is about Clark Kent and Lex Luthor, you know that the factions are gonna be drawn, and early. *grin*

[lexcorp-hope.livejournal.com]

Damn it, I hit enter before I was done. In re Lionel- I like him in the sense that I like to watch and see what he will do, and I like writing him, because he's totally fucked up, but as a person, I think he's horrible. He's a horrible, abusive father, but they've but enough random humanness (not kindness or anything, just humanness) to him that he's not a cardboard villain, which I find fun to work with.

[elynross.livejournal.com]

Ka as Kansas is just - well it is painful. I don't know if I can take it.

But it's not our world. It has a major metropolitan area in Kansas, and the shipping docks make perfect sense, because there has to be some major shipping thoroughfare to explain how Metropolis ended up in Kansas.

I dunno, I think things like this never bothered me (like snow at Waterloo, in HL), because I'm quite happy to buy that in alternate universes, part of the differences are small things like this (or larger, dealing with river courses and such). The abbreviations for a number of states are the first two letters, so it makes sense for it to be KA -- even if ours is KS.

Also, adore your contemplations on Jonathan, even if I can't easily handle him being called "Bo Duke." *g*

And hatred of Lionel is entirely reasonable! He's supposed to be hated!

[destina.livejournal.com]

Personally, I love Jonathan with an eternal passion. I even wrote a couple stories about him. Everyone thinks those stories were about Clark and Lex, but oh how wrong they are! *g*

[linzeestyle.livejournal.com]

like I had no idea there were Clark/Lana shippers until linzeems told me

Hee - I apologize profusely for skewing your SV worldview like that. Man, when I found out there were *actually* Clanas, and it wasn't just some made up thing people try to make you think exists (like the easter bunny or Lana Lang's personality)...well, it was very sad.

Hey - I like Bo Duke! Though more in fanfic...to be honest the Kents on the show sort of annoy me, for the same reason Mrs Scully annoyed me on TXF. So much wholesomeness and muffins and "sure, let the bad men electrocute your best friend because then he'll forget your secret and hell, he's just a Luthor anyway." Also, sometimes I cannot believe they are really saying the things they are saying - nobody talks like that. If I wanted placitudes I'd watch 7th Heaven. But I digress.

I've never ever blamed Bo for not liking Lex. I think as a whole the fandom woobifies Lex and doesn't quite like the fact that the characters on the show don't all share our viewpoint. Hey, like you said - I'd freak out too if a 21/22 year old with money and a reputation for being something of a playboy started hanging around my sweet (if totally naieve) innocent little 15 year old alien son. My little sister is almost 15 and the first time I realized that hey, Clark's supposed to be her age and Lex is hanging around an awful lot...well, I had a minor freak out. Then I realized the Clex transcends my age squick and got over it. But I cannot blame Bo for not doing the same. *g*

Although honestly, sometimes I think the other reason the fandom doesn't like Bo is that he speaks the truth - one day Lex *will* be a very very big danger to Clark - we know this. It is canon. We just don't *like* it, and Bo likes to say it. A lot.

Linzee

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

Okay - the platitude thing - um, there are people in the world that speak like this. Trust me. I know. Usually they are very elderly - but I have been there and you *have* to listen and nod respectfully and try not to doze off or roll your eyes and it is very difficult.

::feels for Clark::

sure, let the bad men electrocute your best friend because then he'll forget your secret and hell, he's just a Luthor anyway.

See, I like this because it acknowledges that the Kents are not this perfect little family - that they have a dark underbelly. And it is this decision - this counsel to Clark - that will turn around and bite them on the ass later on when Lex becomes the World's Greatest Villain (and I love saying that) because they, in no small way, are responsible for a lot that happend to him.

[linzeestyle.livejournal.com]

See, I like this because it acknowledges that the Kents are not this perfect little family - that they have a dark underbelly. And it is this decision - this counsel to Clark - that will turn around and bite them on the ass later on when Lex becomes the World's Greatest Villain (and I love saying that) because they, in no small way, are responsible for a lot that happend to him.

This? I like. I think the reason I don't like watching the Kents on SV is because there is wasted potential - moments like that show that the Kents are not wholesome and perfect, and they could work with this. Then I would be rivited and *want* to watch them, muffins and all. It's like when Martha was working for Lionel in season two? Was that two? That was interesting for a while there - then she went back to being Stereotypical Wholesome TV Mom, and I stopped caring again. Bo is fun because at least he has agression, which while justified is not always well-put.

Okay - the platitude thing - um, there are people in the world that speak like this. Trust me. I know. Usually they are very elderly - but I have been there and you *have* to listen and nod respectfully and try not to doze off or roll your eyes and it is very difficult.

:shivers: That might actually be scarier than Clanas.

Linzee

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

See - the Martha/Lionel thing is still there -- as is the knowledge that the Kents are not the Waltons - but no one is explicitly saying it. But dude - I see it and it is there and you just have to actually watch those scenes.

Unlike the Lana thing - I think this is something the creators actually get - that while, for the most part the Kents are really good bunch of people, sometimes lines get crossed and ultimately the person that will pay for that is Lex. I really think this is the story they are telling. So quit fast-forwarding that shit and watch the end of Rosetta again and watch the expression on Bo Duke's face as soon as Clark can't see him. That is not a man who is certain he is right. That is just a Daddy who is scared.

[linzeestyle.livejournal.com]

Ah, man - see, this is the downside to watching this show. I *have* to watch parts of in fast forward or my brain starts to melt and I start wanting to do things like watch season nine of The X Files. So I never know when I'm missing something intriguing and worth watching - somebody needs to make me little blinkies that will flash red or something whenever I should stop hitting fast forward.

But I will rewatch Rosetta again now that you have said that. I *want* to see this type of thing in the show - the hope that there's something beneath the teen-drama-with-aliens surface is what keeps me doing stupid things like buying the DVDs when I know half of every episode will hurt my head. I think that's why I like the Luthors so much - even Lionel (I don't like him, but I love watching him and will be sad when he inevitably bites the big one so Lex can take over) because there's layers there. So you know, if I can find that in the Kents, that will make me very, very happy.

Linzee

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

See - I never got how you were always so cringy about watching the Kents - I mean - yes there are platitudes - but there is other stuff as well - dark stuff, especially in S3 with Jon's deal with Jor-el and not telling Martha and his heart attack and attacking Lionel. S3 was DARK and Jon led the pack.

I think my poor boy is finding out that what worked for Hiram (spout some platitudes and whittle something) will not work for him. Poor Bo Duke - I doubt he makes it out of this season alive.

[linzeestyle.livejournal.com]

It's not so much cringy as just not extremely interested by them, I suppose. Er...well, that came out wrong. I like them well enough - every so often they'll do something that will grab my attention, like tell Clark he should leave Lex to be a vegetable to make his secret safe. Then they interest me. But the whole family unit as a whole just didn't grab my attention - keep in mind I have the attention span of a hyperactive toddler - because they are normal. Or as normal as it is possible to be when you have a 15 year old from Outer Space. I like them in fic and in theory, but they haven't really grabbed me on-screen yet. Which is probably very sad, and says that deep down in order for characters to grab my attention they have to be homicidal, self-centered or completely insane - or hey, all three! This explains Mulder and Spike.

Then again, I haven't gotten to watching the first half of S3 yet - so keep in mind there is a large portion of canon here I am totally missing. You could tell me Bo Duke gives up farming and drives around on his Harley dressed like James Dean from episodes 3x01 to 3x07 and I would probably believe you. So I suppose I should really get on that - I suspect the Kents will be more interesting after that.

Linzee

[bandgeek.livejournal.com]

Clark/Lana ... ewww. You mean, like, the boys like to kiss girls?

I seriously think that SV fandom has broken my het. Yesterday, I inadvertently downloaded a vid that involved lots of Lex kissing women, and it totally grossed me out.

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

You and Cappy are the cutest lil slash fen that ever did slash.

We're in Metropolis?

[mlyn.livejournal.com]

I don't think we're in Kansas anymore.



I HAD TO!

[forked.livejournal.com]

Ah- Bo... uh Jon Kent. I have mixed feelings. I never felt the Pa Kent hate early on, because I kind of 'got' him. What I liked about him was that I thought he was honest. I like that. He didn't like Lex. He didn't trust Lex. He wasn't shy about letting folks know it. But that was HONEST and he did have his reasons. And then when we found out that he'd done a deal with Lionel- betrayed his friends in order to keep Clark... I liked him more. Why- because it made more sense of why he might have an issue with Lex. In some ways his dislike was a result of his own guilt. That made sense. None of which is to say I won't 'boo' him when he's being mean to Lex- but I still LIKED him! There wasn't anything 'two-faced' about him.

Now I DID have a major problem in s-3 when Jon encouraged Clark leave Lex in Belle Reve- and particularly when he seemed to hint that it would be better for Lex to get brain damaged than to risk Clark's secret. And I had a BIG problem with that for a couple of reasons:

1. Like I say- I always thought of Jon as honest and loyal. Perhaps to a fault. And when Jon gave Lex that watch for his wedding, when he accepted the deed to the farm in s3- both of those things seemed to me to say 'welcome to the family- you're one of us, now.' No, I didn't think Jon was going to go around revealing Clark's secrets- but dammit, he let Lex in. That means Jon owed Lex a kind of loyalty. He doesn't get to have it both ways- take him in (watch and deed) yet hang him out to dry (brain fry). That irked the crap out of me.

2. Already mentioned above- but... I'm never quite sure on how we are supposed to view the Kents. Sometimes, it seems to me Jon is telling Clark that he needs to 'do the right thing' and not put himself before others. However, other times, it seems he's saying 'family comes first, and that needs to be protected above all else'. Now either of these two approaches works for me, but they are NOT synonymous. Again, you don't get to have it both ways. And what really irks is, I'm not at all certain that the audience is suppossed to notice the difference. I'm not certain that AlMiles notice the difference. If they do (and we are) then that's cool- yes, it makes the Kents much more interesting and complex than they appear on the surface. But a lot of time, I get the feeling that we're supposed to think the Kents stand for all that is good and right and honest when clearly- they don't. So... it often rubs me the wrong way.

As to Jon freaking about Clark being gay... I could pretty easily imagine him homophobic. Just a stereotype of a small town football 'good-ole-boy' who thought the scarecrow tradition was nifty. However, I think he'd 'deal' if Clark ended up gay- because it's pretty clear he loves his son and Jon has had to deal with a lot of stuff that's MUCH weirder than a gay kid! (A gay alien son who wants to date a Luthor... now that might push him over the ledge!)

Hm- but I still don't hate Jon. OK, sometimes I do. But not too often!

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

2. Already mentioned above- but... I'm never quite sure on how we are supposed to view the Kents. Sometimes, it seems to me Jon is telling Clark that he needs to 'do the right thing' and not put himself before others. However, other times, it seems he's saying 'family comes first, and that needs to be protected above all else'. Now either of these two approaches works for me, but they are NOT synonymous. Again, you don't get to have it both ways.

I agree with almost everything you said here - except for wondering if Miles and whatever he is get it - cause I tend to just go with whatever I get from a show and not really care what the creators intended.

So I totally see this is dual conflicting views held by the Kents and real people do this all the time and it causes all sorts of cognitive dissonance that resonates when you think about the incredibly screwed up life Clark is destined to have - well it just makes sense in the, "Of course this fella is gonna have two identities that will conflict all the time and he is gonna run around in public wearing his underwear on the outside and stand for truth and justice and the American Way (which is so very vague) did you see what his daddy did to him??" kinda way.


As to Jon freaking about Clark being gay... I could pretty easily imagine him homophobic. Just a stereotype of a small town football 'good-ole-boy' who thought the scarecrow tradition was nifty.

But see - that is a stereotype and there is nothing in canon at all to suggest that Jon is homophobic. Of course, that does not mean he won't react negatively (but a lot of parents do have an initially adverse reaction just because the reality of their child's life is not meeting their fantasy - The Kents deal with this every day, though) - I just want people to realize that Farmer/Rural American does not automatically mean close-minded, white-sheet wearing, red-neck, illiterate bigot. Cause that is unfair. Of course sometimes someone like Jon is all these things - but usually there would be some kind of inkling before. And I watch him very carefully. Very very carefully. As in very carefully - I love BO DUKE! and I just don't see it. And I am an expert at spotting the scary RedNeck - it is a skill you *have* to have where I come from.

[forked.livejournal.com]

Oh- I'm right there with you on not caring about authorial intent- usually. It's more that I don't exactly trust the writers to actually play it out. Because I agree- the message IS mixed and I think that should have a big impact on who Clark ends up being- which is kind of schizo-weird-boy. I'm just not sure the writers are actually going to make that tie-in, which is why I find it irksome. Sometimes. (It's like, if I trusted the writers more, I'd be totally cool with it. But I don't. So I'm not.)

Oh yea- and I'm totally stereotyping with the homophobia. No doubt about it- they've never given any indication on the show one way or another. However, if I had to bet, knowing nothing other than Bo's age and background, I'd bet he was mildly homophobic. Not to say he wouldn't get over it- even my S. Baptist, Mississippi grandparents have shown a real willingness to 'get over it' when it comes to family- and I think that's how Bo would be. Not that I particularly expect the show to delve into, but it's what I most easily imagine.

I think it's just that most people I know (particularly non-urban) who are that age- they are homophobic. Maybe not rabidly so, but definitely in the 'Ew- icky, just keep it away from me, and no, you can't get married' sort of way.

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

I'm just not sure the writers are actually going to make that tie-in, which is why I find it irksome.

Oh - I think they are aware of a lot of this - maybe not the Lana thing, but the issues surrounding the darkness of the Kents to the sexuality of Clark - I think they are purposely playing or at the least touching on some of this. BUT - remember that Clark, et al is totally owned by DC and DC is notorious about wanting to control the image of Clark and Superman. No way are they gonna permit a lot of this to be more than subtextual at best. At least not at this juncture in time. So I glean what I can and watch the show mainly in my imagination.

[valarltd.livejournal.com]

I've been breaking my brain on SV fr a couple days now, trying to figure out where Metropolis is. I always thought it was Chicago as Gotham is NYC.

But 3 hours from a place on the KS prarie will put you in Omaha, Kansas City, Wichita, OKC or Denver. Depends on where Smallville is.

And hey, Memphis is landlocked and we have a port. Ditto St. Louis, Hannibal, KC. In Kansas, the ports would be on the Kaw, the Red River, the Missouri (on the Eastern edge), the Neosho, the Arkansas. Those have been used for shipping since before the Lousiana Purchase.

And i am much with the Jonathan love.