Buffy Fan... No Mention of Apologies Anywhere In this Post

[sisabet]

I realize now that I don't think I will ever be able to have a rational conversation with someone that does not like Buffy, possibly because my love for her is not rational.

I also hesitate to post my thoughts about Buffy and the seasons because it seems whenever someone tries to post why something works for them - what it is about the show that just made them very, very happy -- the people that respond to that post are overwhelmingly negative and insist on recounting, to infinity, their own issues.

Issues that we have already covered and which have nothing to do with the poster's statement get brought up, again.

And I understand that if you watched Season whatever of a television show and it did not work for you, that you possibly will want to discuss this. And I think that responding to a positive post with reservations is a perfectly reasonable response.

I cannot help the part of me that then just wants to scream "SHUT UP, SHUT UP!! I AM SO SICK OF THIS, SHUT UP!

I don't think I will ever be rational. I also don't think that I will ever convince anyone who felt betrayed by Season Whatever that it wasn't actually personal and that Joss is not Satan and Marti Noxon does not eat babies, and it isn't all about Spike or it isn't all not about Spike and Buffy is actually very likeable and so is Xander, Willow, Dawn and Spike. Yes, even Spike. And Giles had a role and instead of bitching about it, let's find out what that role is.


And I know this to be true because season 7 has only been finished for 2 years and already I am weary and ready to abandon the fight and hide out in a cave until it all blows over and I know that Buffy wouldn't do this. She would hit the comment button and respond to the negativity. Actually, she'd probably make it worse as talking things out is something she struggles with - but you see where I am going here.

I just can't do it anymore. My blood pressure can't take it. I am tired of the same damn arguments and it bugs me and it isn't rational and it isn't in the spirit of whatever, I am just sick to fucking hell of all of this shit.

Find a better show that had a seven year run. Find it. Want to argue that it went downhill after Season 3? Fine. Find a better show that had a seven year run. Find better arcs, better continuity of characters, better dialogue and emotional depth. Find it.

God, most of our shows are killed before they have time to even try to achieve something close to what BtVS did accomplish. This sucks - I hate it. But in this one instance we were given a complete run of a girl to woman's story and I love that we have that. I love the story that was told and was it perfect? Hell, no. Nothing is ever perfect. It feels more real because of the flaws, actually.

But to me - there could not have been a more perfect story told to me over the course of the six years I watched. It was told to me. And I loved it and it made me so happy in those years and so I am not rational.

I am also a person who grew up attached to a television. I have watched much TV my friends. Oh, the TV I have seen. I might not be a scholar of pop culture or whathaveyou, but I can tell you the song that was playing in the background when Alex P Keaton got his first serious girlfriend and I can explain the intricacies of the Ewing clan and why Ray and Lucy getting it on was seriously gross and that once upon a time, Sarah Jessica Parker was not only likable, she was inspirational. I can tell you that there always had to be a blond(e) and brunet(te) in any dyad and cite examples of Dukes of Hazzard and Too Close for Comfort.

Buffy the Vampire Slayer was the best television series I have ever seen. This statement is mired in emotion and yeah - I won't ever be able to rationally discuss it.

So I give up. Not on Buffy. On being rational.

Comments

[sunryse00.livejournal.com]

Find a better show that had a seven year run.

Just because I like a show doesn't mean I have to like *everything* about that show. It doesn't mean I have to like every character on the show. And it doesn't mean I thought Joss was God and have to bow down to all his plot choices. If you want to say it was the greatest thing you ever saw or that Buffy was a wonderful person that's your prerogative. It doesn't mean I have to agree with you because I won't.

Once you put it out on the internet, unless you label it as "only positive comments and if you don't agree don't reply" people will defend their view as much as you defend yours. In this fandom not everyone will agree with you because in this fandom no one can agree on anything.

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

Um... if you read my post, you have to get I am not saying any of this. I am venting and ranting and dude - I *know* this fandom disagrees on everything.

I'm just tired of it. I'm not saying people shouldn't be allowed to dissent. I'm just tired of it. I'm not saying we should all hold hands and sing a song - but wouldn't that be nice? - but I am tired of constant negativity, Buffy bashing and Joss Is Eval.

I'm not saying my desire for these things trumps your distaste of whatever. I'm just saying: Show me better television.

[sunryse00.livejournal.com]

Yes you are saying all of it. You're upset because everyone doesn't love Buffy (the character) and you're tired of the negativity because you think she's great. Not everyone agrees.

You're also saying that it had a great 7 yr. run I'm saying you have every right to believe that but don't expect everyone to agree with you because they won't. Some people believe the good show ended in S3 and some S5. There are those that think it didn't get good until S6 and 7. There are those that felt by the end of S7 Joss had trashed the characters and there are those that think that the show ended beautifully and loved the core 4.

If you're tired of the negativity the only way to escape it is to escape the fandom because no matter what we are as passionate about the show or some aspect of the show even if it ended for them in S3.

[debchan.livejournal.com]

You know, I could be wrong, but I think the original post is more about venting than a desire to engage in debate about whether or not you think her opinion is valid.

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

I give up. I just...

Between *this* and the anonymous dude, maybe I *am* in the wrong place.

[sunryse00.livejournal.com]

I'm not debating anything, I'm just saying if you don't want anyone to disagree with you don't put it on the internet, and especially not in this fandom.

This is lj and I thought the whole point of posting in lj was to get a dialog going. Sorry if it's just about everyone agreeing with Sisabet's every word. My bad, and lesson learned.

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

It is just - geez - I rant on and on and on and actually say I cannot be rational about this topic, get flamed for being a freaking fan in the first place by some anonymous dipshit...

I don't want a dialogue about this! That is what my post most emphatically stated. No one is linking this to mutant allies - this is a person who is having a HORRIBLE DAY, coming onto her LJ and just bitching.

And I am not myself at all right now because normally I am not like this but today I am and I...GRRRR.

I know not everyone will agree with me. I am just sick of the negativity about something I LOVE and I stop posting about Buffy because of that and it bothers me and today - today I can't deal.

Tomorrow I will be better.

[wolfling]

There's getting a dialogue open but there's also going into someone else's lj when they're gushing over something and deliberately raining on their parade.

There's a difference between posts that are obvious requests for a dialogue and discussion on the merits of a certain plotline or season or show and then there's posts that are just as obviously someone gushing about something they love and that they just want to bask in. Tearing down the subject of the latter kind of post is at the very least rude, if not deliberately baiting.

A person should be able to post a squee about a fannish love without opening themself for a "dialogue" about whether or not their fannish love deserves their affection.

And sisabet, you're right -- there's no other television show that has been like Buffy. There's very few shows of any length that I would put in the same category of quality and originality and there's things I love about every season, even when there's things I wish they hadn't done/had done differently.

I get tired of all the negativity as well; I've never understood why some fans aren't happy unless they're picking apart whatever it is they profess to love. I'm all for critical discussions but every now and then you just want to squee and go "isn't this show amazing?" without everyone coming in and pointing out every perceived flaw, real or imagined.

Long live the squees. ;)

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

And here is where I take a moment and chill out.

You are right about a lot - I give you that and I am sorry I jumped down your throat. Have I mentioned this is not a good day and I am a wee bit reactionary?

Also - my mother just read a comment where I called someone Cocksucker and she called me out about that and I am really too old for this, but I feel about 12 right now. I might even be grounded.

I hear what you are saying and normally I agree with the spirit is said in.

I absolutely do not want my LJ to be a place where only those who agree with me can feel free to post. Except for today.

But I didn't say that and you had no way of knowing and I have no idea what all you are going through so let's just let this drop and next time I decide to post about Buffy - I will do it on a day when I am firmly wearing my rational hat.

[sunryse00.livejournal.com]

I wasn't disagreeing with anything you said, just stating why people are so passionate about this fandom. You're passionate about Buffy, I'm passionate about Spike. You find Buffy the greatest...I don't. Nothing wrong with it because like I said no one can agree on anything here.

I still don't understand why people feel that you have to love everything, every storyline, every season, and every character in order to watch and enjoy a show. a show, but that's me.

I've noticed times you've shut off the comments option. I respect that because I understand there are times you just want to say something without anyones opinion. This time you left the comments on I thought that meant you wanted comments.

[debchan.livejournal.com]

*shrug* Sometimes people post to start dialogue. Sometimes people post just to vent. Sorry that you feel picked on, but, dude.

Just because I like a show doesn't mean I have to like *everything* about that show. It doesn't mean I have to like every character on the show. And it doesn't mean I thought Joss was God and have to bow down to all his plot choices. If you want to say it was the greatest thing you ever saw or that Buffy was a wonderful person that's your prerogative. It doesn't mean I have to agree with you because I won't.

That doesn't sound like, "I thought your opinion was interesting, however I disagree and here's why." That sounded like, "Bitch, please, I cannot begin to tell you how wrong you are." One encourages dialogue. The other does...not.

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

Thank you for proving my point, at least, about the negativity.

It is every freaking time any one posts ANYTHING about Buffy at all, someone feels compelled to talk about how they hated it, or it sucked, or Buffy was terrible and I am tired.

This was a venting post and now I just am sick to death of everything, including fandom and I was already sick of nonfannish people so I think I will just go home and watch some Stargate Atlantis and turn my computer off and eat some cookies.

Before I do that:

You're also saying that it had a great 7 yr. run I'm saying you have every right to believe that but don't expect everyone to agree with you because they won't. Some people believe the good show ended in S3 and some S5. There are those that think it didn't get good until S6 and 7. There are those that felt by the end of S7 Joss had trashed the characters and there are those that think that the show ended beautifully and loved the core 4.


Fine. I know this already. I do. Really, I have a merit badge for surviving the Great Spike Wars of aught one.

And still no one can tell me about a television show that had a better 7 year run. We can argue about the quality during that run all damned day long. I'm tired, so I won't. But show me better TV.

[kimera.livejournal.com]

What I think some people are missing is that fannish love, like any kind of love, is really not a rational thing. I don't think any of us sit down to watch a new show and think "I am going to love this show and write fic and vid and make fanart for it". It just... sometimes there's a *ping*, sometimes there's no *ping*.

I seem to remember Spike claiming something along those lines way back in season 3. "Love isn't brains, people, it's blood."

And things don't have to be perfect to be loved. If we were only allowed to love perfect things then the world would be a love-less place.